When using Simpson hangers etc., my impression has been that you’re supposed to ‘fill all the holes’. So with a TP37 tie plate are you really supposed to put in 32 nails? Seems like a LOT!
Thanks.
Thon
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Hangers are specifically engineered to meet a specific load requirement in a specific use or location.
There are other pieces of hardware that are more genericly intended and the number and type of nails is left more to the judgement of the installer or engineer who speced its use. Filling all those holes would make the wood "nail poor" and turn it to toothpick ends
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Thanx Piffin, someone actually agrees with me about the wood splintering.Keep telling my guys that putting 4-5 nails in every joist is just busting the wood up.Had a going around with a builder that wanted 16d's in every hanger,even single members. Couldn't get the concept that, that 1 1/2" of nail poking out the back of a 1 1/2 board was doing nothing.
I didn't do it....the buck does NOT stop here.
LOLSomeday, In a perfect world, common sense will rule
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I recently finished reading Railway Engineering and it said the tie plates are "nailed" with railroad spikes.
It is interesting that they sometimes have a little slope to them so that the rail tilts slightly inward to resist the force.
~Peter
<Filling all those holes would make the wood "nail poor" and turn it to toothpick ends> That was exactly my thinking--and the reason I called Simpson before I asked the question here. I wasn't convinced that the woman who gave me the advice was very sure about it.
Glad I asked here. <g>
Thanks.
Thon
Tab,
I had the video on CD that you can get free from Simpson. In it, it is stated that not every hole on every hanger is supposed to be filled. You should check with an engineer.
We have to have our plans fully engineered now, and in the engineer's nots, he specified a strap and stated that every other hole should be filled. The extra holes are there for extra capacity or flexibility.
I've never seen a joist hanger with round holes that didn't require them all to be filled. Some of the odd shaped holes are extra, or allow for a higher loading value.
Tab, our code in Michigan requires us to put 4 nails into each wall when we use a tie plate.
We love tie plates!
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I just looked at the Simpson site, because I have never used or seen used, one of these.
Tell us the situations that occur that warrant the use of a TP37 tie plate. Thanks.
Gene, I'm not sure what a tp37 tie plate is but I do know this.
In Michigan, all bearing walls have to have their top plats lapped. It is allowable to use a 3'' x 6" something guage plate and put 4 nails in each wall, instead of lapping the plates. Since I never lap the top plates, I often use these tie plates. If I'm using a lapped backing plate (usually a 2x6), I don't bother with the steel plate.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
So, we're talking about the doubled top wall plate, and the requirement that any lap joints be staggered some minimum (48" in most jurisdictions), or else be joined with something like the Simpson TP37?
Right?
The flat TP37 is 3-1/8 x 7 x 16 gage (I might be off on the gage) and has 32 holes.
We might be doing a quickie next month, maybe panelized, and I'll bet if we do, we'll be using something like a TP37 to join wall plates of adjacent panels.
Yes Gene, that plate sounds about right. There are lots and lots of holes, but we know that we only have to put 4 nails in each wall.
I think the tie plate helps out if the laps aren't staggered enough too. I don't know..I don't risk that...we stagger the plates 48" or more and since I don't have any cutouts in the middle of the wall, it's never an issue.
Quick story. When Ben and Frank were rookies, they used to forget about the 48" lap rule. I always am careful about laps because....well...that's just basic good carpentry....I don't need any code book to tell me to spread all laps as much as possible.
Anyways, I used to spot their mistakes and usually made them fix them as soon as I spotted them. Well, as time went on, I was absent more and more and one day we had a red tag....it seems some plates weren't properly lapped 48"! I went over and looked and sure enough, the boys had ignored my teachings and now the inspector wasn't going to allow it. I sent them over there with a laugh and told them to have fun....They sputtered and argued and tried tocome up with solutions but I would hear nothing of it.
Off they went to sawzall the top plates off and insert new ones of the proper length, properly mainaining the stagger principle. I don't know if you've ever done this when the roof trusses are one and nailed down, with partitions in the way and wires and pipes and stuff, but I didn't see them for four hours.....I still laugh at them today for that deal!
I never had another incident!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Gene, I took a look at the tie plats that we use. They are 3.125" x 7". they have 20 holes. They are stamped out by a local metal stamping shop and we buy boxes of 250.
They meet our code here.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I don't recognize the part number off the top of my head but I once strapped across a rim joist to tie 1st and 2nd floor together and the inspector asked why I only filled half the holes. I showed him the Simpson catalog where it said every hole with 8d OR half the holes with 10d or 12d. He was so impreesed that I read the catalog that he breezed through the rest of the inspection.
Read the catalog. I know it's a pain but they really have a lot of info in there.
I'll see what I can find about the tp37 tomorrow.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.
The mfg should have specs for how many nails of what size are needed for a given strength. At least they did the couple of times I looked for them.
The tp and tpa seem to be the more generic hangers that Piffin mentioned. The catalog gives no load strengths. Just says holes are sized for 8d common or 8dx1 1/2"nails.
Smile. It could be worse. You could be me working for you.