Ok, what is the thinking and or best practices? A 16d nail is 3 1/2 inches long. May nailing schducles call for 16d ie 3 1/2 inch nails. And yet 3 1/2 inch nails to be used in air framing nailers are hard to come by. Why would this be?
Now I also have seen nailing schedules call for EITHER 3 1/2 inche nails OR 3 inch nails and when the either or is listed it typialy calls for say a qty of 3 – 3 1/2 inch nails or 4 – 3 inch nails. I guess that makes sense. And yet it is 3 1/4 inch nails which seem to be the most common or available air nailer framing nails.
So, why would a framer not want to shoot 3 1/2 nails and user fewer of them? Or why would 3 1/4 inch nails be most available when it is 3 inch nails that are called out on the schedule?
In practice do carpenters just use 3 1/4 nails and use them in the number called for for the 3 1/2 inch nails or in the number called for for the 3 inch nails?
WHAT DO FRAMERS USE FOR NAILS (Joist and Studs not sheathing)??????
Replies
Communication problem?
Structural engineers don't talk to framing gun engineers?
Framers
And very few framers evn know what a nailing schedule is. Give them a full nail gun and they go nuts and use way to many nails, no matter what size. There is a section of the IRC that covers nailing schedules, but I doubt if you could find one in ten framers or engineers that have read or understand it.
If the nailing schedule is based on common nails and you are using a nail gun, you need about 30% more nails to meet the required strength.
See ESR-1539 http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ICC-ES/ESR-1539.pdf
Heck, you need that many extra just for the extra ones you shoot when you forget to take your finger off the trigger.
Generally, if a connection calls for 2 16d .162 3.5" nails, you need to use 3 of another nail that is at least 3" long AND .131 thick.
So, if you have a big gun you can shoot 2 real honest sized 16d 3.5" .162 diameter, or with a normal gun you shoot three 16d or 10d gun nails.
Thanks Guys
So, in general do framers using nail guns shot 3 inch or 3 1/4 inch nails for framing and just use more of them. It seems like teh 3 1/4 inch nails are very readily available yet the nailing schedules call for either 3 1/2 or 3 inch nails. Jsut seems really odd. Why not sell guns to shot 3 1/2 inch nails and make the nails availbel and be done with it?
Do
Gun driven nails (3-1/4) in stud walls and lumber headers drive deep-easily the depth of a hand driven 16.
So, for penetration-framers say no problem. Might want to compare shank size closer-might be your deal breaker.
Smaller nails are common because people are CHEAP and do only what's barely code minimum. Everyone in construction seems to be trying to cut every corner they can and smaller nails don't cost as much and the labor to put them in is less. The popularity of the smaller nails is the reason gun makers don't design the required extra beef to drive a decent size nail - why would they increase the cost of their guns if the average buyer is using smaller nails anyway.
Most areas of the country don't pay much attention to nail size during an inspection. Earthquake prone areas do to a greater extent.
Every inspector is going by nailing schedules that are common for the area - framers kinow what is common for their area so they don't have to read the fine print on the latest IRC book, so they aren't flying in the dark.
Same with clipped head vs. full head nails. I like to use clipped head nails if I can because the gun is easier to use all day, but not all areas allow clipped head nails regardless of how many you use.
Sometimes the diameter of a nail is more important than the length.
Nails
The first full head nail guns shot 3 1/4" nails. When you bought these nails you asked for 16d gun nails. They substituted for 16d sinkers that were normally used. These were not common nails nor box nails. (Sinkers were cement coated before vinyl became the norm.) Nowadays many nail guns will take a full 3 1/2" nail.
FHA codes used to require that studs be toe nailed to the bottom plate with 3 or 4 (I can't remember which) 8d nails. Practice was to face nail the plate to the stud with one 16d sinker before the wall was raised then toe nail.
There are unique gun nail sizes such as 10d plywood nails or "shorts" which are the diameter of a 10d but shorter. These are often called out for sheathing.
It is quite common these days for gun nails to have color coded heads so that it is obvious on inspection what kind of nails were used.