“Why External Finishes Fail” (FHB #110) recommends these preventive measures:
1. Seal the wood with a paintable water-repellent preservative.
2. Use a good-quality oil-based, alkyd-based or stain-blocking acrylic latex-based primer; the label should clearly state that the primer can block the bleeding of extractives.
Special primers are available for knots.
3. Apply two coats of a good-quality, all-acrylic latex house paint over the primer.-
Home Depot has a bewildering array but nothing specifically said “Paintable, water-repellent preservative” or “knot primer”. Could you please suggest some specific brand- and product-names? Thank you!
Janet
P.S. Last time I used Kilz Premium for primer and Ace Hardware’s house brand for the top coats, but the knots still bled through.
Replies
First things first, don't shop for paint at a place that sells every other damn thing under the sun as well. I only use the best paints I can buy sold by a paint store. I buy building supplies from the lumber yard. I buy flooring and millwork from the the cabinet maker/mill. O.K. enough preaching.
Kilz shellac based primer will cover. B.I.N. shellac based primer will cover. The only thing you need to watch is that these are not designed to be used as a total cover primer. By this I mean you should spot prime the knots and stains with these primers, then use the best primer you can buy to cover these and the rest of the surface you want to paint. Keep in mind that if you don't do the very best you can with the primer and surface prep, you are wasting your time and money. There is a good article in the March FH issue about primers.
Curly
Thanks for the product names. I have had good luck with Zinsser products in the past, so I'll check out their website.
They always say to buy the best paintbrushes. Does this apply to the sealer and primer coats, too, or just the layers that will show?
Janet
Just checked out Purdy's website, and there are more brushes than you can shake a paint stick at! There is not enough information to run a comparison of the different brushes.
What would be a good brush to use with Zinsser Cover-Stain?
Janet
Is there any way you can get to a good professional paint store? They will have what you need. FWIW, I have used Cover Stain quite a bit and it dries so fast you can barely get it off the brush. Great product for priming ends and edges of cedar siding and trim as you install, but not something I would put on a large surface... use Benjamin Moore #100 instead.
If anyone is still reading this thread, I've called three professional stores (SW, Mautz, Klingers (local)) and no one has heard of a "paintable water-repellent preservative." They all say primer is the thing to use to protect the wood. I don't think this product exists.
Cuprinol. But you have to let it season for a spell.
http://www.jasco-help.com/products/prod_wp.htm
It looks like most of the products meet the requirement.
The clear wood preservative specifically meets the water repellant specs, but some of the other products say that they help control warping and swelling that implies that they have some water repellence.
Some of the others like the Termin-8 have more protectent in them.
david
This has nothing to do with the discussion but where you at, I lived in CR, Ia for a long time, only place I know of that has a Klingers paint store.
Yep, I'm in CR.
And my sister and BIL live in CR, too. He's a hardwood floor installer.
Are the leaves off the trees yet?You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
We are close to the peak of color right now; probably 20% leaves off. Very nice here.
Thanks everyone.
You should check out Smith & Co. 'Penetrating Epoxy', a two part liquid that's designed to soak into wood and provide a good base for paint. I don't know if Smith has a website... but call them and talk to Mr. Smith himself. (510) 237-6842. He'll tell you about the stuff his company makes and where it's available. I've used Penetrating Epoxy with great results. It soaks into wood in a way that primer doesn't.
Check out Woodlife Classic by Wolman. They were bought by Zinsser. I had the same problem - kept reading articles about using paintable wood preservative for exterior trim before priming but never saw a product name. Also asked at all the "pro" paint stores and they had never even heard of anything like it. Thought it might be partially due to Boise being almost a desert and rot is not as big of an issue here as other places. Still was surprised that noone had even heard about it. One reason that few people use it is that it is kind of a PITA. For best results you should dip or flood the wood and then wait at least 24 hours before priming. Kind of complicates priming the cut ends if they need to be dipped first. Still seems like it would be worth it for some situations. Can understand why the painters wouldn't like it.
I ended up using Woodlife Classic. Wanted to use Woodlife Classic II, but it can't be sold in California anymore because of VOC regulations. I E-mailed Zinsser to ask what the difference was, but they needed more specific information to identify which two products I was comparing. My guess is that Woodlife has gone through several reformulations and changes in ownership, so the Woodlife name can refer to several different products.
It was very easy to use--no fumes; cleans up with soap and water. It left a waxy-looking sheen that was actually rather attractive.
I had a hard time tracking down Benjamin Moore Freshstart alkyd primer. Finally found one can. Opened it up and--ewww! It looked gross. Took a close look at the can and found the manufacturing date: 1981! This must be another product that can't be sold in California anymore.
So I gave up and went to a TrueValue hardware store for their house brand of alkyd primer. Doesn't hide dark areas or knots worth a darn, so I used Kilz on top of that.
The gate looks really nice. There's just one teeeeensy problem (forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=49510.1).
Janet
It matters less with primers and sealers than with finish coats. You don't need a great brush, but you do need an adequate one. Avoid foam brushes because you need to get into the texture which a foam brush won't do. Also don't get a bargain brush. But, a medium quality would be fine.
You can use the same brush for the sealer as the finish coat as long as the paints are the same base, that is both water based or both oil based. Since some sealers are shellac based you might not want to use the same brush for one of them and the finish coat.
Professional painters buy top quality brushes, clean them well, and use them daily for years.
There is a Sherwin-Williams store a few miles away, and stores that carry more than one brand, including Benjamin Moore. What brands have uniformly high quality?--or perhaps I should ask which brands to avoid?
Janet
You cannot go wrong with Benjamin Moore.
I never heard of a S-W paint store carrying Benj Moore. Is this standard? Because I have a SW store 1 miles away.
Can you clarify? Thanks.
MES
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that there is a store called Sherwin-Williams and they carry just their own brand. There are other stores (Main Street Paints, Joe's Decorating Supplies, etc.) that carry several brands.
For eally beligerant bleed thrus paint them wood glue... The tite bond II or III is great for this... Add a few drops of water to thin and go for it..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! What a Ride!