I have 3 homes I’m building on a lake these homes are going to be 3 stories high 25′ to 30′ wide and 40 to 45 deep. garage is going be on second floor with living space under the garage. also the garage and the entrance have to be on the garage side, which is street side. i wold like to have a two car garage what is the least depth I can get away with. I’m a northwest builder and I like covered decks craftsmen design my problem is I cant find any designs that will work for me. In this market would a elevator be a plus or a loss for me or would it be a waste of space. or a great sales tool? the cost of the elevator would cost about $30,000+
Thanks for any Input or if you have a design that would work. Gary
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Sounds like you're going to be building on a steep hillside.
As to minimum depth for two cars head to tail, you need 45 feet. King-cab pickup w/8' bed is 21'+ long; 7' wide, and just under 7' high with a cap and ladder rack. Crew-cab is about 9" longer.
I do not think you're going to find a stock design for something like this; you're probably going to have to design it yourself or hire someone to do it for you.
When do you need it for, and what code jurisdiction is it in?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Like dino, I think this calls for a custom design. His Q about jurisdiction leads to whether you can hire a designer or must have a licensed architect, I think. A few of us here do design work.
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I will do the design but will be hiring a licensed architect and engineer to finish up the fine details.
thanks Gary
113353.1
You need to talk to talented guy/girl who can come up with a house that fits the lot, and I'm not just talking about staying within the setbacks either.
Here in Annapolis, where narrow lots and waterfront go hand in hand, the canned houses invariably come up WAY short.
Runnerguy
I'd start w/ magazine/website Coastal Living
I know what you mean, I love visiting Annapolis and going sailing there I live in Anacortes in the San Juan Islands and have seen the canned houses your are talking about and I definitely don't want to go that route, the houses have to have street appeal and lake appeal and living appeal I'm designing them right now I guess I am looking for visual insperation any pictures out there?
Thanks Gary
Read 'The Not So Big House' by Sarah Susanka.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Checked it out and ordered a few books loved the suggestion, I will definitely be using some of her designs in these houses.
Thanks Gary
Here in the Chesapeake Bay shoreline we also have pretty strict impervious area requirements. So while a lot may permit a larger house in terms of setbacks, etc. The impervious area allowed my limit the size of the house. And impervious space is house, driveway, walkways, etc. And no, grass pavers aren't permitted here. Welcome to the dark ages.
Susanka's books are great. Another great book is this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Home-Essentials-Enduring-Design/dp/156158696X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237287284&sr=1-1#reader
If I feel a client is "into" the design process, I'll go out and buy this one and Susanka's and make then gifts. Get's us started off on the right foot.
Runnerguy
Ps: Oh yeah, I'm an architect
What I do is put a pervious driveway in, so I don't have to worry about those types of things I'm very familiar with them. what I do is dig a infiltration trench along the back under the pervious driveway that way water flows thru the driveway into the dirt and trench and have the over flow go in between the houses into a dry river bed its attractive and functional, and the municipalities love it.
Thanks Gary
Unfortunatly, good common sense doesn't prevail at the Anne Arundel County building and permit department. Lot's of innovative, green, cutting technology stuff you guys are doing on the West Coast wouldn't even begin to fly here.
Runnerguy
they need to read a few books and stop being a wall instead they should be a door.
looked like a good book,checked ebay,bought 1 for 4.75
heres 3 more
http://cgi.ebay.com/Patterns-Of-Home-Barbara-Winslow-Murray-Silverstein-N-Paperback-2005_W0QQitemZ341245134243QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4f73cb85a3the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
It is a great book. I think it's a little bit better then "The Not So Big House" but not by much as both are great. It's just that this one seems to explain things a little better.
And BTW, another great stairway is shown on page 113 and again the same one on page 116. Light, furniture, openess, etc. That stairway, like the one pictured on the cover, is going to be a delight to go up and down. It makes the house.
Runnerguy
It's not so much her designs you need to look at; it's her overall philosophy and how she thinks you need to learn.
Get that under your belt, you'll be able to design whatever you want.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Just my opinion. I don't think craftsman design is suited to the lots you describe.
Narrow lots with a down slope to water is really well suited to modern architecture.
I can see the house stepping back every story with each one having a balcony with a view.
Large windows with interesting spaces and colors.
If it is done well they can look stunning and be very livable.
When you design modern architecture the boxes and subtle colors really matter a lot.
They do lend themselves to small irregular lots.
Here is a few I found on Google images.
The first one shows how each one looks out and has a view. These are narrow hillside lots. The garages are on the street up slope.
The second one is nicer. It shows the downslope. But you still se how the it steps and has large windows with a view.
The third pic is of the side view. It doesn't show stepping that much on the top but you can see how the slope is worked with. There will be another house next to it soon unless the owner buys the lot. They back them in right next to each other.
These are typically built on slopes that were considered un-buildable a short while ago.
I worked on a few in So California.
Will Rogers
Edited 10/30/2009 12:21 pm by popawheelie
Thanks so much that is one of the directions as was thinking of going but I worry that the houses around the lake that are existing are not like that and I"m not in the city type living area. I was even thinking of using slate tiles and cedar on the siding as decorative accents on the front and back of the house and maybe a steel railing details.
Thanks a bunch Gary
I'm no expert. So take what i say with a grain of salt.
"I worry that the houses around the lake that are existing "
You are always going to run into that no matter where you go. Some places are more traditional and less open to change though.
The same thing happened in L.A. That's one of the reasons I moved out.
You know an area and there are some open spaces. But then they get filled in.
People think that these irregular lots will never get built. They are considered open space.
But if they so dearly love these open spaces they can buy them.
As land values go up and population increases they will be built.
But you can build them with some care for others around the lake.
How much care is up to you.
But back to your design.
Maybe the shape of the houses will be modern but you could treat the exterior with some traditional materials.
There is no reason I can see why you couldn't have some.
Also, landscaping would go a long way towards blending them in. I know the trees will be small for a while but in a little while they will be big.
I don't know if you need the approval of home owners around the lake.
But if you do, have the houses drawn up with full size trees around them.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Edited 10/30/2009 4:23 pm by popawheelie
Thanks, do you have any interior drawing of those houses?
here's my design team I'm sure you will see my problem!
Edited 10/30/2009 3:24 pm ET by jibdow
One thing you can do with the stairs is to make them open and flooded with light.
It makes them a design element instead of something you have to climb.
Just look at the cover of the book runnerguy recomended. The stairs are front and center and flooded with light.
"There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
It makes them a design element instead of something you have to climb.
That's exactly right. That stair on the cover of that book is great and stairs are often overlooked as sculpturing and ordering device. When designing, I treat stairs just the same as I would a room and I try to make them feel like one. A room with a different function then say a dining room or a kitchen, but a room none the less. And in a hillside house that is going to be critical.
And don't forget Gary (the OP) how we feel about a space is strongly influenced by how we arrive in it. And in a hillside house there's going to be a whole lot of arriving in spaces via the stairway.
Runnerguy
definitely will be doing the stairs with lots of natural light. thanks
I own a view site which fits the description although the road frontage is better. I've been kicking design ideas around ever since I bought the place, many years ago.
One experience which has given me ideas was helping to frame a home on a steep site, similar to what you've described, in Oakland CA, many years ago. In that case the 20' wide two car garage was on the top level, with the main living areas in the two lower stories.
I like the concept of keeping the kitchen, dining area, family room, bedrooms and baths on two levels, as the architect did with that Oakland house.
do you have any pictures?
do you have any pictures?
No photos. That's one of many homes that I wished I'd taken a few shots of with a pocket 110 or any other cheap camera from that era. The crew too.
I'm almost certain that house was destroyed in the Oakland fire, about ten years ago. I expect that there are many replacements there now.
Here's an idea You could try http://www.realtor.com and type in Skyline Drive, Oakland, CA to see what photos there might me of homes for sale which have the features I mentioned.
thanks everyone for your input here is one of the three houses that I will be doing this house is in the middle and I will be putting a house on either side i will post pictures on my progress during the I no its ugly! but don't we love to do these type of projects and make the most amazing changes its like a canvas to do our art.
i'm reading this with great interests,i have a lot that sounds like it lays the same as the op.
you mention building a garage on the 3rd level. give me a quick rundown on how that was framed and did it have a wood floor?
that is the exact situation that would work for me,but all i can picture is pouring 20' walls and putting down a prestressed floor,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
all you have to do is use the appropriate size tgi's 12' on center with proper support beams underneath and then do a water proof membrane so you can have living space underneath engineered right and its no problem you save a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$
give me a quick rundown on how that was framed and did it have a wood floor?
OK. This house was built in 1969, with architect's seal and a permit. The property was very steep, but appeared to be all clay and loam. The two lane paved road ran perpendicular to the slope, at the top of the property.
The foundation was four large piers, all connected underground. Lots of concrete and rebar, according to the drawings.
The framing of the first two floors was all standard dimensional lumber. 2X4 walls with 1/2" plywood sheathing, 2X10 headers. Interior partitions were standard framing too. I was surprised by the standard sizes, knowing that the garage would be on top of it.
The top floor garage was connected to the road by a wood driveway about twenty feet long, concrete poured on top of it. The driveway was anchored by several piers next to the road, which in turn anchored the top floor of the house.
The joists for the top floor garage and driveway were all 2X12 on 12" centers, bridge bracing every eight feet or so. I remember that garage floor and driveway because it was a serious PIA to frame and it was mine for a couple of days.
I sincerely doubt that this framing method would fly today, even though there are many similar homes from that time in the hills around Los Angeles and the Bay area.
i'm surprised with the 2x4 wall framing. now you have me really thinking this over.i had kinda dismissed it because of cost.
mine would lay out with probably a 20-24' tall concrete poured wall towards the street,to be backfilled against for the drive. sounds like then i might be able to use standard framing from the footings ,up through the 2nd floor .then frame on top of it with a wood floor.
it wouldn't bother me if the walls had to be 2x6,even on 12" centers holding that floor.
i had a engineer spec out my flat roof area at 2x12'sx16 on 12" centers. alot of trees had to die for my roof................maybe i could park a car up there.:]the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
i'm surprised with the 2x4 wall framing.
I was on a working vacation trip when I found that job. I'd never worked on a hillside home so that place was a revelation to me.
Considering that the Bay Area is an earthquake zone, I'm still surprised that such houses were and are commonplace. SoCal too.
On the other hand, I've visited numerous hillside homes in L.A. which are almost all concrete.
The hillside house in the movie "Easy Rider" was designed and built by a friend from those days, who owned it for a number of years. It has a bunch of unique features, including an indoor-outdoor pool. That house has very little wood framing in it.
Many like you describe along the coast in Calif.
Laguna Beach, Corona Del Mar have thousands of them.
Some old and some new, all expensive.
I lived in Newport Beach for many years, had a lot & a half. 45' wide by 75' deep. Most lots were 30'. Amazxing how much house you can cram onto one.
Joe H
11 posts in two days?
i think it took me two years to get to 11. lol.
There is a floor plan book that specifically addresses narrow water front lots. There is another that is just for lake fronts too. The floor plans are done to put the entry on the front(rear) or side and the main living spaces at the rear(lakeside)
I'll look for them and let you know if I can find them.
Thanks
You're pretty well describing my home exactly..
No stock plan will every work well on those sites.. just won't work.. Too much chance to lose something.. Windows for example can't be placed based on only one house but must take into consideration the next door neighbor when lots are soooo close together. You don't want one window to look out at a neighbors wall a few feet away.. nor do you want it to mirror the neighbors windows so you can look from one bedroom into the next.. Looking into a tree though can be a nice thing though.. and if you can get lake views from any window you should do it.. Even if it's something like a bow or bay window..
Creative things can be done with multi story homes too! Set backs are your friend as is square foot limitations..
A simple rectangle won't be attractive but set backs both vertically and horizontally can both reduce the foot print and add dimension to what would otherwise be a too plain silhouette..
Creative use of interior space too is called for.. one of the most effective ways is to have a great room at the lake end of the home covering all the stories.. Then balconies and interior windows can be used to give lake views and still maintain privacy.. the whole lake end of the house is then covered with glass.
That can be very dramatic and the interior windows don't need to be expensive double pane Low E ones either.
With the whole Lake wall glass it can be a simple rectangle and still provide a dramatic statement..
Lakeshore homes need ammenities to attact the clientel you seek.. they don't want to climb a mountain of stairs to get to their bedrooms and an elevator is actaully a status symbol.. Plus they take up less space than a stairway though.. make it large enough to get furniture up there though.. that or have another stairs capable of hauling furniture up.
Your clients won't be Joe six pack and his six kids The raw land priceis too high for that.. but rather an empty nestor who on occasions has the family and friends over..
Thus the master bedroom is critical.. it's needs to be both large and have a large master bath.. Again your clientel will demand marble and plush features.. Plan on it.. True, a nice kitchen will help sell the house to the wife, but the master bedroom without lake views and a large enough size will kill the deal..
Those family and friends bedrooms can be very modestly sized and plain with small closets. Don't spend much on trim or do anything but paint the walls. This is where you save costs.. The bathroom that serves the guest bedrooms too should be modest and plain.. Guest bedrooms and bathrooms should be Stuck away remotely.. Top floor type places.. on the street side rather than the lake side..
I assume that the garage will be a tuck under.. That's a great feature.. owners go down stairs get into their car, push the garage door button and then find out what the weather is like.. No need to run to the garage..
Don't make the garage too small!
These will be older people who may have hobbies or boats etc to park. Lawn mowers and other impliments need a place. a Too small a garage will kill a few sales.. remember the garage is on the street side and thus cheap to build.
Now here are a few construction bits of advice.. Three stories you'd better have a way to get stuff that high.. if you count on people to do it you'll be laying out way too much money.. the most efficent way to build in these conditions is a telehandler. (Lull type unit)
Think out of the box.. with narrow side yards it will be hard or impossible to get around to the front.. so you have to start building on the lake side and finish on the street side..
Here's where alternative methods of construction such as ICF's can more than pay their way.. the foam can easily be put up by people with little or no experiance. and then concrete pumped in to form walls.. The window wall on the lake front should be a version of timberframing.. It's dramatic and relatively cheap to build.
IF you have no skill doing timber framing you can build it post and beam and it will only be slightly more expensive..
Thanks I'm there on same page I think the elevator would be a great sales tool too! for every one but especially empty nesters and retires.
They can bring there grand kids and family over for special occasions or just have there kids come down for the week end and relax by the water ,canoeing, swimming etc.
I'm looking forward to this project I was able to get three lots together on the lake each one will have there own personality I'm looking forward to getting my books I ordered.
I should be starting on the remodel in the middle next week doing demo on the interior yahoo.