need a lesson about heat pumps
i have rentals and one central air bit the dust. i usally just call a guy here in town ,buy it and go put it in myself ,no big deal,spend maybe 700.
today i call and he goes into the big speel about everything is now 13 seer,have to replace a coil etc. tells me no way can i do it,but i can lay 3400.00 on him and alls well. if you have input on that i would love to hear what the difference is.
but on to my heat pump question. found a dealer that has about 10 10 seer heat pump units left at a pretty good price. does it make a bit of difference to me if i just hook them up as a air unit and forget about ,thermastats and everything else that might be involved.heat pumps have always been a little mystery to me.
i’m ready for my lesson…….. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Replies
heat pumps are simple, it just a refrigerant unit that run backwards. all it does is remove heat. remove heat from inside and its cool, remove heat from outside and move it inside, its warm.
thats basically it
they is hardly any different from a regular ac unit, just some extra copper and a reverse valve.
thats really what i understand also. so if i don't put a thermastat in that throw the reversing valve it will perform just like a regular air cond?
do you think the old acoil is any problem? thanks larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I'm guessing that you're not paying for the electricity? 10 SEER is pretty lousy -- SOMEONE'S gonna end up paying a lot more in the long run.
am i going to put a 10 seer in my house,no but i'm the one who buys it and pays for the electricity to run it.
the rentals are a bussiness ,no other way to look at it. a house that rents for 700. won't rent for a dollar more if it had a 94% furnace and a 16 seer air. they look at the house,neighborhood,and rent factor and decide. if the guy down the street has just as nice of house as mine and it's 10.00 cheaper i'm toast."in the long run" equals into 2 years in the rentals.
as far as seer is concerned,to tell you the truth i think it's way over rated.i have 5 ton and a 2 ton 14 seer in my house and my bill didn't change 5.00 from the old 10's. the only reason i can come up with is i'm burning the savings with the computer here on breaktime.lol larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Edited 8/2/2007 8:51 pm by alwaysoverbudget
a 0 seer is not that bad, it mainly how cold do they want it. if they want 60 in 105 heat, yes it sucks power but if they want 70 in 80 heat, its not that bad. I have a 10 seer heat pump and my power bill run about $29 a month.
wow a 30 electric bill,my miniumum is more than that. but you are right in how you use it. around here a 1200 sq ft ranch ,probably a good average for 4 months cooling is around 150 a month,but if you want it 65 watch out.
i have one tennant that shuts off his heat and air when he goes to work,if he gets home and it's bearable fine. his bills run in the 50-60 range every month.larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Maybe your bill didn't change $5 with the better efficiency ... but maybe your rates jumped 20% or more? You don't really know w/out comparing Btu's, not dollars. I guess it is OK to litter ... just a little.
I know what you're saying about business is business. Ultimately we pay our money and take our choice. Can you increase rent to compensate for a higher value? We could discuss that all day. You can't put hickory cabinets in 'the projects' and expect to get a comensurate rent.
Mark Williams, HR, OR
as far as seer is concerned,to tell you the truth i think it's way over rated.i have 5 ton and a 2 ton 14 seer in my house and my bill didn't change 5.00 from the old 10's.
(1) I would be willing to bet that the charge on the AC units is not right. (2) Are all components matched (condenser, lineset and A coil)? (3) 14 SEER does not exist without a variable speed drive furnace/air handler. (4) TXV valve or piston?
Dan
I'm looking into buying a couple of AC's and furnaces and they are 13 or 14 SEER, what's the difference in the SEER rating? I understand that the higher the number the more efficient but tell me more, please.
These are for my own place and I don't want to get something that's going to drain me energy wise but I can find some good deals on the lower SEER rated units, just want to maximize my cash.
Doug
Edited 8/2/2007 9:10 pm ET by DougU
http://homerepair.about.com/od/termsst/g/SEER.htmDefinition:
SEER is an acronym for Seasonal Energy Efficiency Rating which is an efficiency rating of an air conditioning system. It is a ratio of the annual BTU's of cooling provided divided by the electric energy input used, and is measured over a range of temperatures.As of January, 2006 central air conditioner systems must be manufactured to a minimum 13 SEER although you may still buy older units having a lower SEER (lower efficiency) rating. SEER ratings go as high as 21. The higher the SEER rating the larger the physical size of the outside air conditioner condensing unit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_energy_efficiency_ratioAir conditioner sizes are often given as "tons" of cooling where 1 ton of cooling is defined as being equivalent to 12,000 BTU/h. The annual cost of electric power consumed by a 72,000 BTU/h (6 ton) air conditioning unit operating for 1000 hours per year with a SEER rating of 10 and a power cost of $0.12 per kilowatt-hour (kW·h) may be calculated as follows:unit size, BTU/h × hours per year, h × power cost, $/kW·h ÷ SEER, BTU/W·h ÷ 1000 W/kW(72,000 BTU/h) × (1000 h) × ($0.12/kW·h) ÷ (10 BTU/W·h) ÷ (1000 W/kW) = $864 annual cost
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thanks Dan
"I'm looking into buying a couple of AC's and furnaces and they are 13 or 14 SEER, what's the difference in the SEER rating?"Actually the SEER number of the front of the unit (such as an XL14) means nothing. what is important is the SEER of the system. that includes the compressor evaporator coil and the air handler.There is information available from a 3rd party (airconditiion institue or something like that) that certifies the actual combinations.an installed system can vary to over a point difference from the nominal SEER. .
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
what is important is the SEER of the system. that includes the compressor evaporator coil and the air handler.
Can I assume that I can find that number on the spec sheet somewhere?
Currious how I will know how to find out that info.
Thanks
Doug
I think that you need to look up the combination.http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/cooling.htmhttp://www.ceehvacdirectory.org/.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Just hook them up; however, Al Gore is gonna come get you, that 10 Seer will stick your tenants with a 10% higher elec bill for AC. Note that Al pays 40 cents for the difference at his house with its $20,000 elec bill <G>.
Save the planet, elec Al. Or give 40 cents to the Sierra Club for 10 Seer mitigation fees.
You didn't say where you are located ... can make a difference. heat pumps aren't good everywhere and a contractor may sell you one in a marginal climate.
Also, energy codes in your area may not allow the lower rated units ... hence why you can get a deal ... the contractor can't use them anymore. Yeah, maybe they don't inspect for energy efficiency even if you do get a permit, but the energy code is there for a reason ... because the technology is available and being used regularly ... so now it is required technology.
If you can, bite the bullet and put in a high effiicency unit that meets or exceeds national energy standards if there are no local codes ... Energy Star rating as a MINIMUM. You may get longer life out of it due to the better quality of the newer technology, too.
Edited 8/4/2007 4:42 pm ET by MrEnergy
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=93080.5&search=y&redirCnt=1
Sounds like maybe he goes into the big speel at your expense?
Joe H
i go on vacation and miss all the good stuff. they must have went after me pretty good,i see the moderators sent it off to cyber space. next time i'm taking my laptop with me. if someone,s going to flame me ,i want to be sure and read it! larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I did some research on the benefits of the higher SEER and was surprised with the answers. I went to this site and completed the "savings calculator" worksheet. The cost of upgrading to 15 SEER from 13 SEER was much higher than the benefit. Maybe the cost of your units or your climate will make a difference.
I like the worksheet because it *should* be from an unbiased and independent source (DOE).
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
A heat pump is an air conditioner with a reversing valve. If the valve needs to engage for cooling, there will be a "woosh" noise when the unit shuts off.
SEER is a rating of the whole system, not just the air conditioner. You can use EER to figure the efficiency of the air conditioner.
Odds are, you will not get even 10 SEER matching a new 13 SEER unit to an old coil. The compressor will get slugged if the charge is not spot on in such a mismatch, and the charge will have to be short to ensure that only vapor comes back to the compressor. That means less efficiency (fewer btu's available) and longer runtimes.
It is better to put a 13 SEER coil on a 10 SEER condenser.