Hey everyone!
Has everyones winter been as slow as mine? I can’t believe how slow it was for me. This was a hard bloody winter. Nobody seemed to want to spend any money. Lots of tire kickers, nothing else. I finally picked up a basement and bathroom just in the nick of time. I’ve been living off the overdraft and credit line all winter.
I can’t keep starting the season in the hole. Does anyone have any ideas to generate income through the slow winter season?
What ever can be offered is appreciated.
Dave
Replies
I'm sorry that I don't have a magic pill for you here. I have been successful with constant marketing. Talking to friends, neighbors, and dealers. I also advertise in the newspaper.
"It is what it is."
snow plowing? landscapers do that in winter
that or get a flamethrower and tune into your childish crazyness if you know what I mean
There's enough youth in this world, how 'bout a fountain of SMART??!!
I had considered that. My truck is a 4 x 4 and is amazing in the snow. Insurance around here is absolutley crazy. I have to admit I am perinoid of taking on a contract and then find my self picking of a big job and not being able to take care of it and or the plow contract.
Dave, I'm no marketing genius and I don't advertise so I can't help you much with that. But I can tell you what I do when I'm slow. When we don't have a job to go to, I make it my full time job to find work. I still get up at 5am, shower and dress. Then I go to my office and plan out my day. I start cold calling past customers/clients first. I chat them up, see if they need anything currently (even if it's small) and ask them about any future projects they're planning. I remind them that I'd love the opportunity to put together a proposal for them on any upcoming projects they have. It gets my name back in their head and can sometimes help them to move forward with a project they may have dragging their feet on. And sometimes I get lucky and find that they've got something ready to go.
When that route dries up, I wash up the truck, get in it, and drive around hitting jobsites. I meet new GC's and give them a card and just chat them up a bit. I try to feel out what they've got coming down the pike and again remind them that I'm just looking for the opportunity to put together a proposal for them. They've got nothing to lose by giving me a chance.
What I really want, when it's slow, is to land a motherload of a job. But I'm happy to land a deck on a house that's already been built. Or even some punch-out work. It's money in the bank both figuratively and literally. I get a day's pay and an opportunity to showcase my skills and professionalism which can and often does lead to future big fish.
And when I do get a project to price out, I do it almost immediately and as thoroughly and professionally as I can manage. Then hand deliver the proposal to the appropriate party in a timely manner.
In the very least, I sleep well because I know that I've done my 'due diligence' to get us back on track. I try to use down time as productively as possible. I do what I've described above, but I also use the time to get all my gear and equipment back in good shape. I clean, organize, and stock the truck and trailer. Fix any broken tools and perform any needed maintenance on everything else. Because before long I know I'll be so busy again that I won't be able to find 5 min to change the oil in the compressor or fix that cut cord.
We're just winding down from a very spotty 3 week work drought. I did all of the above during this time. One of the builders I called that I've worked for in the past had a 3 season room about to start that he "figured I wouldn't be interested in" because it was a small job. We framed, roofed, and trimmed that job and pulled 3 productive and profitable days out of it. You never know if you don't ask.
DP,I just want to say, that was an excellent response. GK
My hat's off to you Brian... what a great response. No wonder you're successful.
PaulB
PS... Don't sell yourself short, you are a marketing genius ;)
Edited 4/5/2008 11:21 am ET by PaulBinCT
Excellent post Brian. The one thing I would add is to up the advertising ante bucks. I think most small contractors are too frugal on their advertising budgets because they don't need work with they are busy and don't want the hassle of bidding lots of tire kicker stuff. When they get slow, they can't afford to advertise. It's a viscous circle! It's a fairly common problem with small shops: one head and lots of hats to wear. You've pointed out that you know how to shift into full time sales mode when you run out of work. Obviously, that's a huge key. You've also taken the next step: DOING IT!.I especially like how you're describing the way you've parlayed small jobs into bigger jobs. That's an important point because it's rare that a large successful builder will turn over a large sub contract to someone that he doesn't have any relationship with. Your "small one day" job is the opening round in a long relationship. You're smart enough to recognize that you need to hit on all cylinders during this initial project because it reflects on who and what you are and tells a story of what a larger project will be like if the new builder uses you. That simple lesson escapes so many "new" subs. They burn their bridges on their first days simply because they are too focused on making a couple of pennies per hours more instead of focusing on the service aspect of their business.Great post! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for the response guys, I appreciate it. But I probably learned to do all that from you guys anyway.
The one thing I would add is to up the advertising ante bucks. I think most small contractors are too frugal on their advertising budgets because they don't need work with they are busy and don't want the hassle of bidding lots of tire kicker stuff. When they get slow, they can't afford to advertise. It's a viscous circle!
That's definitely me, to a point. I can definitely afford to advertise. I'm pretty good with my money (most of the time) when the work is flowing. I'm usually set up to ride out a good 6 months without any work before I'd have to start thinking about dumping equipment or raiding the family savings. It'd hurt, but I could manage it.
Anyway, that wasn't the point. My point is that, to be entirely truthful, I have NO IDEA how to go about advertising what I do to people. My bread and butter is working as a subcontractor to GC's. (Framing sub as many of you already know). But I probably frame directly for homeowners 2 or 3 times a year as well. Mostly second floors and smaller additions. Advertising to GC's seems not only daunting, but quite possibly useless to me. (Please enlighten me here). It appears to me that most established GC's find their subs and keep them for a long time if they're happy with them. And if they are shopping for 'new' then they're not going to trust me based on a flier or bill board or something. They'll ask other associates in the trade about who to call based on their referalls. New construction seems, to me, so much like a word of mouth business of referalls. It's been the hardest thing for me to overcome breaking in five years ago.
And as far as advertising to homeowners goes....I don't really know how to go about that either. I mean, how many homeowners are shopping for a framer? Window replacements, yes. Roofers, yes. Siders, yes. But framers? It always seemed like a waste of money to me. I think that many homeowners considering GC'ing their own jobs are a bit intimidated by the thought of hiring a framer. If I could find a way to advertise to them as "homeowner friendly" I think it might be worth it. Because, in truth, I can handle living up to that (being homeowner friendly). I don't mind subbing to homeowners who GC themselves. I know what to expect and I know how to charge for it. Truth be told, some of my most profitable jobs have been working for homeowners because once they trust me they'll often let me take the project as far as I'm willing to. It saves them from the uncertainty of additional 'strange' subs and they usually are willing to pay a nice mark-up if I, for instance, bring in my roofer or my sider to take things further.
That guy, "Shellbuilder" who posts here.... I like his gig a lot. I've often thought that that's the way to go. To me, bringing jobs from scratch to a fully framed, sided, and roofed job and then cutting free to the next one, sounds very enticing. Unfortunately I don't yet know enough about site-work to be able to comfortably take on that scope of work yet. But I do have a guy in mind that I think I could trust that end of the business with.
I'm blabbering. I didn't mean to hijack the post, but I'm just thinking "out loud" here.View Image
I don't think it's blabbering at all.The OP is slow. He probably would like to avoid that situation in the future. You and I share the same thoughts and thought processes about marketing to GCs that need framers. It's not the sort of thing that lends itself to marketing in traditional ways. I agree with everything you said about how you get to them and why they don't respond to flyers or letters. New construction is a beast unlike others. I dropped out of the remodeling arena because I didn't need sales and marketing to service new builders: I framed one and if they liked me, I'd be busy for a year minimum. I didn't have signs, cards, advertising....nothing. I didn't need it. I refused to work for homeowners and turned down all remodeling work. I said no to more work than I said yes too. That worked fine until the builders ran out of work. Then, I realized that I had been relying on the builders methods of marketing and sales. I was tied to their fortunes, not mine. So, I would warn about that especially because when push comes to shove, they will opt to feed themselves if they have to choose feeding me or their own families. That means that they will cut prices so low that I can't make a legitimate buck when the new building market goes south as it is now. to be continued...
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You might want to market to any local companies that "help" owner/builders such a UbuiltIt, Presidential homes, etc. Have no idea of what is in your area.Also there are a number of owner/builder forums. Might want to check them out and see if any accept advertising or maybe just some free plugs in the forums, either directly or answering questions with contact in the tagline.Need to tread lightly here for 2 reasons. One they are national and second each forum has both written and unwritten customs about unpaid forum advertising.In some just posting a message that you are a framer and willing to answer questions without giving any clue about location or contact is enough to get you flamed.Others you can could post a descrete contact line in tag line. Others you could post a small picture of your work along with contact and point to a website..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Can you point me to some of these owner/builder forumns? i tried googling but not much luck
I googled - owner builder - and also owner builder forum.These where the first couple I found.http://www.ownerbuilder.com/obs.news.shtml#discussionhttp://www.ownerbuilderbook.com/forum/http://www.ownerbuildernetwork.com/forums2.asphttp://www.thegormleys.com/ownerbuilders/resources.htmhttp://www.ownerbuildercenter.com/forum.asp.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"And as far as advertising to homeowners goes....I don't really know how to go about that either. I mean, how many homeowners are shopping for a framer?""Unfortunately I don't yet know enough about site-work to be able to comfortably take on that scope of work yet. But I do have a guy in mind that I think I could trust that end of the business with."I think you are underestimating your value and worth as a true professional in the building industry. You're concern and lack of understanding about how you go about advertising tells me that you are smart and insightful and willing to admit your shortcomings. That puts you on the right path! You'll figure it out, once you start.Think about your fist set of stair stringers. You were apprehensive and you managed quite nicely. Now, you do them without much serious thought....it's second nature. That's how your advertising campaigns will be after you have done them several times over several seasons. That same level of expertise will spring forth regarding the site work. Admittedly, the two businesses are significantly different but realistically, you will be able to control only one. Frank and I made the hard decision to move one step up the food chain and sell retail. We hashed out everything you have talked about and decided that we would much rather endure the short term pain caused by the learning curve than stay in the new construction market and leave ourselves susceptible to someone else's business plan. It's not an easy transition, especially since we started that process in the horrible Detroit market which saw thousands of subsidized handymen working the markets that we were geared up for. We landed here in Austin with no contacts, no network and speaking with the wrong dialect. They tell us we have an "accent" LOL. Additionally, the illegals here can drive the prices lower than anything we encountered back in MI. At 54, I don't have the ability to start this process and learn the things I should have back then. I chose the new construction market because I didn't have to advertise, market and sell. I opted for the easier choice back then and am now paying the price. That's okay though...better late than never. I'm now spending several thousand a dollars each month on advertising and hope to increase that budget five fold before summer's end. I'm in a new area so I don't know the best way to spend my advertising dollars, but I'm learning. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for the great posts Blue. I can't tell you how valuable it is to me to hear you share you experience with that kind of clarity and honesty. I think I'm sort of on the same track as you, but I'm about 20 years behind. The benefit of your (and others here) hindsight to use as my foresight is an invaluable asset to me. I'll still make my own mistakes, without a doubt, but you guys have already helped my business grow beyond what it woud have without your input.
Part of the problem is that I'm not 100% sure of where I want to be in 20 years. And it's something I really need to start thinking hard about. For a variety of reasons, I can't imagine it'll be framing houses somewhere. Not that I don't love the work, because I truly do. But I also often despise this business enough that it sours the work for me if I let it. I need a long term plan and I don't have one. I've always assumed I would just 'grow into' GCing my own projects. But I'm beginning to realize that thats not going to happen on it's own.
As a side note, I've been seriously considering going back to school. I'd love to teach high school science someday. Yeah, I know, totally off track, but it's still on my list. Even if that is the plan for 10 or 15 years from now, I'm going to need to bank an awful lot of money between now and then to make that happen. And that's not going to happen by just banging nails and waiting for the phone to ring.View Image
You look at yourself as twenty years behind. I see you as twenty years ahead! If you start now, you'll be so far ahead of where I am today. You have a huge advantage in that you can get so much information so fast right here on this site, which is perfect for retail construction sales. Your biggest strength is your professional approach to everything you do in the construction arena. Homeowners see that immediately and welcome it. They all can't afford it, but that's the numbers game of retail sales. If I were you, I'd immediately begin the process of building a successful retail operation. You've already figured out that you'd love to be a shell builder and possess the skills for it. The thing you don't realize is that there are lots of homeowners out there that want this service but they have no way of finding you! That is one of the services we are offering here in Austin and we did that in MI before we left. We found that the homeowners would start out thinking that they'd finish everything themselves, but most often, they'd hire us to do the shell, then they'd ask us to price the rest of the mechanicals. By the time we got to that point, we'd be pricing the insulation package, the drywall, the finish and they'd end up painting and putting in the carpet themselves LOL! The key is meshing your framing operation with the new retail operation. If you are like me, you think; "how will I find the time to do the bids and project manage the jobs if I have three frames in a row to do?". Hmmmm? That indeed is the dilemma. I tried that when I was your age and failed. It caused me too much misery because I tried to wear too many hats. Instead of providing great service to everyone, I burned the candles at both ends and did marginal service for all. In the end, I didn't do any better than if I had concentrated on framing. So, I decided to concentrate on framing...which led me down the path that put me at the mercy of the new builder's marketing plan as I've already explained. There's got to be a better solution.The solution is to find others to wear the hats. You can't do it all. At this point, your greatest asset might be your field presence while a job is ongoing. So, concentrate on that and find people to do the other things. What will you need to do the other things? Lets say you start spending
2k per month for shell packages and you get ten leads per month. Lets say you are busy framing at the same time. You won't be effective if you try to be the sales person and the framer. So, what hat are you willing to give up? Something has to give. Think about your business from a larger point of view, then start filling the positions one at a time. It will work for you because you have the passion to build great structures. I did, but I didn't have someone explaining to me that I couldn't wear every hat. I'm now a hat giving machine LOL! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Lets talk about shell packages from the DIY perspective and the numbers behind it.You are a professional in the industry and you stated that you are somewhat hesitant about your sitework skills. If you are slightly confused, imagine the fear that runs through a DIY who has the money to put 1000 sf on and wants to "finish it themselves". Sometimes, they are doing it to save money, other times they want to use the tools that they have acquired and view it as an escape from their white collar tedium. Now, think of how happy they would be to meet someone like you: professional, learned, intelligent, dedicated, polite, clean....I think you get the picture. Remember, you will also be bidding against other tradesmen doing the same thing...looking for work. Now, think about how many of those tradesmen impress you. Many of them have dirty trucks and they show up late. In a nutshell, you are solving a very huge problem for them. Therein lies your opportunity. That is what should be driving your marketing decisions.The numbers on shell packages work to your advantage too. We all know that a quality build job will cost anywheres from 100 to 150 per square foot. The shell package will be half of that. So, if you are trying to sell a turn key 1000 sf addition, you'd be trying to sell a $150k deal. To some, that will be a difficult decision and they've probably heard one or more salepeople trying to close the deal. Then, you come in and offer to do the shell package for $75k. Instantly, they think..."if he can deliver the shell at $75k, I'll be able to save a bunch of money and the entire addition will ONLY cost me about 25k more for a total of $100k". Remember, the homeowners suffer from the same optimistic thinking that we all do...until the real numbers hit home. Selling shell packages solves two of their problems....the mystery of how to get the foundation and shell up and the money problem. It's a win win combo if you are selling them. They will also naturally lead you to a wider array of services rendered, if you choose to sell them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
So this shell business.....
You mention starting with an advertising budget of $2K/month. More than I anticipated, to be honest, but not out of the question either. I've only got another year (a little less) of forklift payments so that could fit right in to that slot. In the meantime, I could manage.
Hypothetically, suppose I would use this year to start pulling this together (if I decide to go for it) with a goal of next spring having this operational and fully functioning. It always seems as though most of my addition framing comes in early spring so I'm assuming that this is a good time to kick this off. It would leave next winter for planning the projects, getting them designed and drawn, and lining up permits. Late winter is my slowest time of year so this would give me a little more free time to make sure my ducks are lined up before shovels hit the ground. Of course if a job were ready sooner, I wouldn't shy away from it assuming I felt I could give it the attention it deserved.
I'm thinking the first part of an advertising budget would best be spent on a website. A really really good website of professional calibur. A website would be a great place to refer people to as it could probably answer more questions for potential customers than I could in two hours of phone calls. And do a better job of it as well. It would also provide a great way to establish initial contacts with a dedicated email address as well as other conventional contact information should word of mouth referalls come in eventually.
But from there... to where? I'd have the website in place to send people to but I'll obviously need more exposure than just hoping people stumble across it. What's next then? Mailings of glossy fliers? An ad in one of those coupon packs? Yellow pages ad? Newpapers ad? All of the above?
What about permitting? Hmmm... this might be a question best posed to a local guy familiar with MA permitting. Here in MA, homeowners can pull the permits for thier own houses as long as they turn in insurance certs from their subs. But I wonder if this would turn some folks off? Holding an unrestricted MA construction supervisor's license, I could pull the permits. But I wouldn't want to be on the hook for the subs that follow after my scope of work is completed. So the permits would have to be transferred. Both options have their benefits and drawbacks. Perhaps leave the choice to the homeowner? Or would it be better to limit their choices and have a standard operating procedure in place?
These are just some of the things running through my head today as I food shopped, watched the Sox get killed (again) and pan seared some scallops while steaming broccolli and grilling steak tips. :)View Image
Brian, your shell business idea is a little different from the frame-to-finish that we do, but not that different. We are (knock on wood) one of the few busy contractors around here right now, and based on clients I talk to I'd say the initial contact is almost entirely due to the professionally-designed ad that runs in several high-end magazines and a professionally-designed website, with professionally-shot photos. Referals make up maybe 25% of our business.
Your time frame for planning gives you a very good recipe for success. In fact, you are right now musing about what your business plan would be, which is probably going to be the #1 reason (if you write one) why you will be successful, should you decide to take the step. I would urge you to plan for your own personal time commitment when the plan is in full blown operation. To me, that would be the scariest part. How would you deal with three or four leads coming in three times a week? Where would you find the time to chase these leads down and give them full attention, if you are heavily involved all day supervising a foundation install that suddenly exposed a huge trash pile buried right where you need some very firm virgin soil? Right now we have several key players in place. We have someone doing the commission sales, full time. We have a project manager. We have a lead carpenter. We have me, who can fill in anywhere. We have several key mechanical subs lined up and committed to our program; price-wise, quality-wise and they present themselves well. We have a licensed engineer available to do our work at rates that make sense and in a time-frame we can live with. We have an architect that can, and will work with us, in a timely and costly manner. We've got the bookeeper and CPA. Do you see how many hats I'm shedding? I used to try to wear them all. I did a poor job but I did the carpentry gig well LOL! You have a great advantage in that you can spend the year arranging these hats on your hat rack. Another advantage is that you also know your market and areas. We've had to learn all that and we are still a long way from truly understanding where we need to target our efforts. We have the skills to deliver high quality construction services...we just don't know who wants what and where! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Any chance you could recommend a book on writing a business plan? I have no idea where to start with writing one. I read "First Break All the Rules" on your suggestion and got a lot out of it so I tend to trust your judgement. And again.... I appreciate your help and confidence in me. I know you've got your own sh2t to worry about so I appreciate you taking the time to coach me some here.View Image
I can't recommend any business plan book because I've never read one! I've done the internet search thing and read of them in other books. My daughter is big on research and has bought several different business plan software as a result of writing several different plans for various enterprises that they are working on. We were discussing a business plan need on a different business that I am launching (it is not construction and I cannot discuss it at this time) and she has agreed to write a plan for me. I'll get the name of the software from her. She did give it high marks. The main thing about the software packages (according to her) is that it forces you to think about EVERYTHING and put an answer in the box....which is a good thing. Its not fun but necessary. I do have ".... own sh2t to worry about..." but it's not really worry. Its more like "we gotta do what we gotta do". At this point in my career, I really only know about construction. I'm now fully intertwined with remodeling in a very signficant way but I also have some people committed to it so everything isn't falling on my shoulders. In that sense, it's not really a worry at all. Its more of a process. We are collectively trying some things and we are all learning about them. My biggest challenge is understanding this market and the geography of an entirely new town. It is quite daunting and I get conflicting information from four out of five people LOL! Our primary goal is to NEVER rely on framing again for anything more than filler work. We have declared it a no profit exercise that is doomed to the failed cycles that have evidenced themselves over and over. Yes, I loved standing the structures up and I loved the challenges presented but I have to treat it like you are thinking of teaching...maybe someday I can afford to frame because I've built a cash machine somewhere else! That's actually a sad commentary on the state of the trade but for us, it's a reality. More power to those that have found a way to make a career out of it (residential framing). To them, I tip my hat in admiration! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Around here there are all kinds of classes and resources on doing business plans. College have them. County extention agents, Business development foundations, etc.I would start by calling the local SBA and see if they know of any resources..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
At the time (9 years ago) I got my plan format from the Chamber of Commerce small business advisor. I wasn't a member or anything. It was in an outline form and you really just answered the questions.
There is also, as mentioned above, software also available and most Office Depot type stores have business plan stuff in their contract areas. I don't know if you have done one before but it is a real good thing as it gets you out of thinking in general terms and forces you to get specific about a potential business. You realize a lot of parts of it that you don't think of when just runniing through your head. DanT
Did you look at shelterbuilders website?
A lot of good info has been given to you. I had never heard of a
contractor just doing the shell before and that intrigues me.
I think if you look in the phone book, and the ads in your area, find
something the you think you could do. To me, I've never heard of
just building the shell and I think that could be viable to you as
a framing contractor. I guess that even though Mike says to do the
whole thing, I think that this could be a start in that direction.
I loved Shellbuilders website! I liked the simplicity of it and I found it be very informative without being too wordy or glitzy. To me, it was 99% perfect.I'd give him that extra 1% if he'd put his numbers (phone and address) somewhere on each page. The idea of bundling the shell package works very well for a framer. For us, it's the easiest part of the job. For the homeowner, it seems like the hardest. It's a match made in heaven.We did a shell package for this pool addition. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Yes I did look at the website and I too found it very informative. I agree with you in that I've received a wealth of information in this thread. That's why I've been hanging around here for the past 9 years! I hope I give some of it back once in awhile. I'm really liking the idea of the shell building, I see a market for it in my area and I don't really see anyone else doing it right now. I like the fact that it gives me something to actually market, and that the shell packages and 'straight framing' can supplement one another and I don't need to fully change gears and re-tool with what I'm currently doing. It's just an extension of my current business. Good stuff.View Image
As far as sighting your work, I believe that if you fine a good excavating con. they would help you.
The key to "finding a good excavator" is to have one that specializes in remodeling settings. Usually, those kind of foundation guys understand that they are working in peoples yards and are willing to go to greater lengths to protect the yard. They also are more polite to the homeowner. Contrast that to a guy that has dug basements out in huge subdivisions all his life and you'll quickly figure out that he still thinks he's out in the middle of a large lot....which can get dicey when he loads a huge pile of dirt on the Mrs' favorite rose garden LOL!In my early years, I once hired foundation contractor to dig and pour a very small foundation. It could have been hand dug in 6 hours by a laborer. He brought a huge trenching machine on tracks and I ended up paying for damage to the guys driveway. Those are the lessons that a framer can get hurt by until he gets his entire game plan implemented. Even then, it's still important to have pre-construction meetings and also to have ONE person assigned as the project manager. I wasn't smart enough to do that in my early years. I expected every professional trademan to exercise common sense and to do the job that they were paid to do. The reality is that all of them have employees and quite often, even though the contractor would have made the right decision, his guys won't. If there is a project manager onsite, he'll stop the stupidity and have the boss on the phone in ten seconds. All of this is doable...it's just got to be planned for and charged for. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I agree with what you say.
My experience in Mass. is that they do not have the huge subdivisions
that most of the country does.
This means that an excavating cont. probably could help.
I have always found that the guy that installs a lot of septic systems
on existing houses are the best as they are used to working on existing
home lots.
Thats a good tip.I remember one of my first additions. The foundation guy was great, he laid perfect blocks, installed everything to perfection and graded everything nice. The homeowners loved it and it set the tone. It makes a huge difference.Years later, I hired another "pro". He didn't pin the footings, nor dig down to the original footing. I structurally had to carry the framing with lvls over the "overdig". I carried the brick with steel. Even if the footing dissappeared, the house and brick would stand firm. It didn't matter, the mood for the homeowners was soured. It made a huge differnce. My mistake was that I couldn't be there all day and supervise it and I didn't have a project manager supervising it. The "pro" foundation guy was supervising himself and he left out ten dollars worth of steel. It ended up costing me $2500 and a lot of goodwill. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
jim.... pinch me !
i just had to put another guy on last week
the phone won't stop ringing......
reputation, years in business, track record, marketing, references, sales experience...
i have no idea which is the magic part... but
those old guys told me years ago that it gets better.... i guess they were right... this is just a head's up to the young dudes building a business... think long term
bid your jobs so you can deliver quality without cutting corners
manage expectations ... don't promise what you can't deliver.... and make sure you have employees that can execute the business plan wether you're on the job or not
i'm not getting rich, but we are paying the bills...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm not pinching you. Congrats! Your are reaping the rewards of years of doing good work. It's not magic. It's everything you mentioned "reputation, years in business, track record, marketing, references, sales experience..."I'm here in a new town, in a new culture, needing new construction skills and contacts and I feel more confident than ever that I will be successful. Of course, I'm pulling out all the stops and am going to put everything I think I know about the business into it. When we analyze where we are and what we are up against, we arrive at the same conclusion: we are who we are, we can do what we can do and we will deliver a great product and service on those things that we know how to do. Our competition is what they are too. Will they have the knowledge? The attitude? The skill? The experience? Some will, some won't. We won't get every job we chase but when we do win the contract, we will deliver. So far, we're knocking off one job after another and building a small client referral list. They're happy, were happy and soon we'll be "well known" here in Austin. "make sure you have employees that can execute the business plan "That's a huge part of the reason why we know we'll be successful here. We have already experienced what the other trades are supplying with employees and it's scary! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Diesel
SBA online has a business plan course by Donald Trump that is worth looking at.
Greg in Connecticut
You know, this is funny. I feel like I came late to this party, having no real interest in construction until after teacher's college. You want to teach? Do you already have a degree? If so, then it's a no-brainer: go to teacher's college, and kick #### on your practicum. Really seek to master the art of managing a classroom. Then if you want to teach, teach. If you'd rather be a GC, the training you'll get by dealing with students, parents and your superiors will be excellent, just excellent training. After teaching teenagers, it should be a walk in the park.I'm introverted and not naturally assertive, and I found teaching to be the worst possible job, a kind of social torture-test that ate up my life and left me desperately unhappy. In comparison, my experience as a remodeling project manager seemed much easier and more rewarding, even though my five predecessors each burned out in less than year. If you do not yet have a degree, I'd think it's too uncertain a goal for that kind of expenditure. School is a huge opportunity cost; you can use that amount of time to accomplish many significant things. If you're just going to mark time otherwise, though, it might be a good option!
Biff, teaching isn't really a 'near future' goal for me. It's something I'd like to semi-retire into in 15 years or so. I have no delusions of making a public education job a main source of income at this stage of my life. About 1/2 of my family has chosen teaching as their profession.... mother, two aunts, an uncle and three first cousins. I'm familiar with their struggles and the pitfalls of trying to make a decent living at it with this late of a start.
As far as education goes I've got about three years of college under my belt. But I'd pretty much be starting from scratch anyway. I want to go back to college more for my own personal goals than I do for my financial goals. It sounds a little ridiculous, but I'd like to teach once I can afford to teach. Sort of like that joke about winning the lottery and farming until it's gone. View Image
Every time I come up with a new idea that sounds promising I can hardly sleep. Which as you can imagine makes me popular at home lol. DanT
>> Unfortunately I don't yet know enough about site-work to be able to comfortably take on that scope of work yet. <<
Not to drag this thing off on a tangent and not to wine too much, but a year or 2 ago I started a thread in the photo gallery on just that - site work. I had assembled about 200 photos on various aspects of site work and in the .1 post - or at least in the first few - I even posted an outline of what I intended to cover. Unfortunately the response I got indicated little interest, and I decided I wouldn't take the time to post and annotate all those pictures if no one was really interested. It was rather discouraging to me and made me feel like the site was populated with mainly remodelers, subs and DIYs as opposed to home builder types. People seem more interested in what kind of caulk to use than in the actual business of homebuilding.
Back to the topic at hand, what the OP describes is the the exact reason I decline to work for HOs and and happy just working for a successful new home builder. Very little time spent on tire kickers and beating the pavement trying to find work, I get a regular salary and some benefits. I do have immense respect though for people like Mike Smith who have spend decades building reliable client bases of bonified customers who actually have money to spend.
Also more on point, I've hired a some subs after they solicited me on site. Once I checked their references and viewed thir work I hired them and still have a few that "cold called" me and I'm very happy with them. I get most of my subs from other supers I know though. OTOH, I tend to shy away from situations where subs I have are trying to sell me other services that I know are not their speciality. ie - I try not to hire labor brokers. You know - painter wants to sell me drywall (even though he doesn't personally do that nor do any of his actual employees) and my debris removal guy wants to sell me painting.
Edited 4/5/2008 5:08 pm ET by Matt
Matt, I'd be very interested in a thread on sitework. I'm supposed to figure out where to put the house on the site, and spec the excavation details, but I don't know enough about it.
"OTOH, I tend to shy away from situations where subs I have are trying to sell me other services that I know are not their speciality. ie - I try not to hire labor brokers. "You just described Austin to a tee! I never ran into one of these labor brokers in 30 years of construction back in Michigan! Now, here in Ausin, I haven't found ANYONE that DOESN'T labor broker LOL! I saw a guy advertising "I specialize in construction debris pickup and construction cleaning". Here was the exact wording of his ad: "If you are in the process of remodeling your house and looking for demo company that can throughly clear and clean the area so that it will be ready for remodel give me a call Our company also specializes in construction clean up which is usually done after the job is complete. We will rid the residential / comercial area free of construction dust, change filters,clean windows,minor touch ups (caulking/painting), landscape cleanup, whatever you need we can handle."I shot him a request asking about his equipment. Here's his reply "Dumpsters: TDS/ trailor
Heavy Machines: 1 Back Hoe/ 1 bobcat
Electrical Sub: KDR
Plumb Sum: S and D plumbing
SuperIntendent: on site
Labors: as many needed
what are you looking for?"
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
This has been a great thread so far. I want to go into this more with you Blue and I really appreciate all the time you've put in so far. I've got to hit the shower right now though..... the wife and I have dinner plans. I'm getting excited about this. (the business venture, not dinner). View Image
Let me just say that along with Blue's excellent advice and overview of lifes learning cycle you have the ability to do what you want. Self confidence, self motivation, drive, and intelligence are such a powerful combination.
I have had carreers in 5 areas. Army, Prison maintenance and security, Engineering firm field rep, Hotel Maintenance and new construction, Vocational teacher, business owner. Some where along the road landlord and sometimes house flipper. This from a guy that graduated 85th out of 90 in his high school class.
The coolest thing about america is you can be whatever you want to be. And you my friend are young enough with enough drive to do what you want to do. Just pick it and do it! Good luck. DanT
Dan, I'm late replying, but I wanted to thank you for the vote of confidence. Coming from a guy whose business is as successful as yours, it means an awful lot. You're right... there really isn't any reason why I can't do this. It might not work, but there's nothing stopping me from trying.
I like the idea of it because it still leaves framing for other GC's as a viable source of income. But at the same time, I could be generating my own leads as well. By offering the shell package I gain a way to market a framing company to homeowners, as well as the opportunity of covering a larger scope of work with more opportunites for mark-up and profit. With framing only I have nothing to mark up and 'sell'. All we're pushing is our labor. It's a tough gig. And with the exception of the site work, it's all work that I can easily sub out or (hopefully) keep my existing crew busy with. Or both. I'm not telling you anything you probably don't already see... I'm just kinda thinking out loud here.
It's really exciting to think about anyway.View Image
DP
I've been the shell guy for quite a while. I framed custom homes for 12 years and went to building my own houses for a while, went big in additions and remodeling. Tis is my 30th year in business. The last 6 have been http://www.shelladditions.com If you have any questions email me [email protected] I can suggest a few things that may help. It is also very possible to mix this business with subbing from GCs and not compete with them at the same time. I am booked up for 5 months with work now and turning down work for those who won't wait.
I would like to see that thread as well. I tried to search for it with no luck.
"It is what it is."
Matt,I would be very grateful if you would start a thread on site work.
From my limited knowledge, and vast research, sitework is the most neglected, and in some cases the most important phase of construction.Proper drainage, and placement can solve so many other problems. Everybody has their pet projects I guess, but the lack of proper planning and sitework really needs to be addressed in residential construction. IMHOA medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....
NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
Matt, I can't explain why your thread didn't get the attention it deserved. But I can only tell you that I would be very interested in seeing it again. Perhaps timing really is everything?View Image
I went and looked - the thread is still out there. In retrospect, I wasn't patient enough... At the time I had all the pics and stuff organized and had it all clear in my mind what I was gonna do... That was nearly 2 years ago. Maybe when I get into some more stuff like that I'll kinda of start over again.
Edited 4/7/2008 7:46 am ET by Matt
matt..... i never get feedback on picture posts until i'm fully comitted... if you had done your
site-work thread, i' m sure you would have gotten a lot of interesti always just assume that there is someone out tere that would love to see and read a out this stuff... that's why we're all hereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
I don't have a clue what a lot of you folks do, but read all the threads with interest. Love all your threads.Guess I need to "get a life".Pete
Sometimes we need a remider, or at least I know I do. I printed dieselpig's reaponse and pinned it to my bulletin board, just so I'll have something to read when I have nothing else to do.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Very sound advice, Thank you. Happy to say that I did that all winter long to no availe. Had a lot of tire kickers but no buyers.
I see the Red Sox logo. Where are you located? We have some projects that my wife is pushing to get done. I've got some also that I can only get to on weekends so they drag out a loooong time. I've already got a full time and a part time job and I'm thinking it's time to bite the bullet and just hire somebody to do the work.
Your positive attitude impressed me.
JIMMIEM, I'm about 40 min NW of Boston.... 495 near Acton. Most of our work is in Newton, Wellesley, Weston, Needham, etc.....128 area. But we travel quite a bit too. Mid winter we framed a house in Canton... right now I'm framing in Kittery, ME! (but this one's for family). I'll email you through the forum with contact information so we can talk about your projects. View Image
Diesel
I've just sent you an email regarding a friend of mine who does graphic design (including her own website). She's in my neck of the woods, er city but she has clients all over the country.Interview went well, Mother likes the shiny shoes & I found 3 more jobs to which I can send applications!
Sounds good.
I here Newton is a tough place to work...inspectors are difficult.
I'm in Weymouth.
When everything dries up I go directly to the nearest big real estate agency. I just put on clean work clothes, take a photo album of my work and ask to speak with the owner/manager of the agency.
I also go in with the attitude that I'll agee to do whatever they've got, without hesitation, as long as it pays a fair price. I've never failed to find work that way.
Often the house needing work belongs to a family trust. The last parent has just passed, their children all married and moved away. None of the children have time or inclination to find a contractor to do the minor repairs and repainting so the ask the RE agent if they can take care of that.
So the RE agent is happy to see me and learn that I can start immediately. He/she will show you the house or give you the key and a list of things to be done. You go look, come back with a price and he/she will call the HO and sell your deal to them for you.
I've had some excellent business relationships of this kind, where the work just kept coming without me ever having to sell the job. Referrals are very easy to get through RE offices.
The main thing to understand is that the RE agent's only aim is to get the house looking presentable and on the market, as fast as possible. They have no reason to bargain with contractor. As long as the price sounds fair, they sell your services, just to further their own aim.
For most contractors, having a motivated sales person on our side is a great asset.
Edit: Using this method I've usually done the first job for a particular RE agent at a minimum fair price, just to show that I can take charge and get the job done.
After establishing my credibility in that way I've been able to bump the prices up on the following jobs without causing any problems. If questioned about a higher price, I'll admit that I didn't make out very well on the first job because "I'm a better craftsman than a businessman".
Edited 4/6/2008 1:46 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
"For most contractors, having a motivated sales person on our side is a great asset."Excellent advice. That leads me to the next step in the development of a business beyond subcontracting to new builders...hire a commission only salesperson! I first tried to hire a commission only sales person back in the 80's. I recognized that I was too busy doing the installations to properly chase down the sales. I was not successful in hiring the sales people because I didn't have enough time to properly interview and screen potential people! I let the idea slide...much to my detriment. Imagine any thriving business and imagine them without a competent salesperson. Is that possible? I dont think so. So, thinking in reverse...why should we assume that we will be successful in business without a salesperson? Do we really think we can be a great salesperson, project manager, business manager, HR director, book keeper, CPA, marketing manager, carpenter, plumber, laborer, truck driver, all at once?We instinctively recognize that we need a laborer right? We know we need a plumber? We know we need a carpenter but we refuse to believe that we need a salesperson! Hire a salesperson!!!! Accompany them on each bid until you are completely satisfied that they will represent you like you want, then get them enough leads to feed their family. They'll close 10 t0 20 percent of the leads and that should keep you busy. If they close more, raise your prices or cut down on advertising. Now that the salesperson is chasing all the tirekickers....the average carpenter will only have to wear fifteen hats...not sixteen. Get busy and start finding other heads to fit the hats...right? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Speaking of sales people ... How is that new one of your doing? She was aiming for 3 million this year IIRC , ought to be close to the 750 k. mark now to stay on schedule.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
She's still got that goal of 3 million! She's no where close to the 750k mark closed but she has more than that bid. It's not how you start the game, it's how you finish it that counts....or at least that's the line I used to give the kids I coached.I'm very happy with her progress and work ethic and we'll do just fine with her. I'm looking for a couple of other sales people for different services. Shes not really cut out for putting her feet up on the desks in superintendent's trailers etc. Her personality fits much better sitting across the table from a mom designing kitchens and baths and were starting to target that market right now for the first time. In fact, we got our first lead today for kitchens. All in all, I'm very satisfied and she hasn't lost any enthusiasm. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
hmmmmm, interesting. I had attempted that in the past, with little success. but not quite with that angle.
Thanks
brian.... good to see you last Friday..... shells are fine.... but the most return for investment is in the whole package---
shells tend to be commodities.... lowest common denominator type thingthe sophisticated GC's you're dealing with know the difference..but the average homeower doesn't
when selling "retail" we rely on our experience to take on any project... but we do best in those that require multi -trade skillseg: if the job were plastering a 2d floor.... we'd be a poor choice
but if it's finishing a 2d floor, we have teh carpenters and laboreres , we do our own insulating...... we do all the installs...
we'll hang and tape small jobs ... we'll do the painting if it's a small jobbut mostly we'll coordinate and hire the subs: electrical, plumbing, plaster, floorig, paintigi think you have a lot of on-site experience.... all you need are a stable of reliable subs.... and you've been around long enough to know who they are
speaking generally.... subs work at wholesale.... GC's work at retail
shells can bridge the gap..... but be willig to take on the whole job when you get the homebuyer who may have 2d thoughts about how much of the work they really want to dosome are very good at DIY..... most would be better off sticking to paintig and landscaping
( and , YES , i know that most can't do as well as a pro in those two endeavors either....but it is some thing that most , so inclined, CAN doyou have teh right license..... and you've got a good rep........
find a full service lumber yard you want to do business with and take on teh whole projectyou can keep your framing crew and sub the finish... or you can crosstrain your carpenters to do the whole thingour first 10 years or so, we mostly built new homes , start to finish, either spec or contract... everyone did
this concept of framers doing the shell wasn't part of the New England scene until about the late '80's
anyways..... two reasons we stay busy...... first , we have a large stable of previous satisfied customers
2d..... we can pretty much do anything our customers need doing..... and almost everything we do has parts that someone else can do more efficiently.... but in terms of the whole package we manage to competeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
hmmmmm, interesting. I had attempted that in the past, with little success. but not quite with that angle.
Maybe it'll help if I elaborate a bit. My initial contact with a real estate agent is just an open and friendly introduction of myself and why I'm looking for work through them. I make it clear that I can take care of any kind of repairs and refurbishing that are needed and will be happy to do so. Open, friendly and willing are the keys to success.
I'm also honest about the current work situation being tight, thereby explaining why someone with my skills finds themselves seeking work through them. "A friend in the building trades suggested that I speak with a key person in local real estate", would be a good way to say it. I'm your friend and that's what I'm suggesting so it ain't just a line.
The idea is to establish trust by being open and honest, while providing evidence that I'm a skillful person. How reliable I am will determine the rest of the relationship.
What I've often found, working with RE agents, is that they have had past problems with painters and others who promise to get something done in a short time frame but don't perform up to expectations, not by a long shot. That's one often lamented problem with tradesmen which can be easily exploited in this situation by being exceptionally reliable.
As the RE agent is not being paid to oversee the work, just trying to get it out of the way so that they can sell the house and collect their big commission, any tradesperson who will step in, take full responsibility and perform as promised is like gold to them.
They are so relieved and grateful to have someone available who will take these burdens off of them that they'll happily sell my services and my price to the homeowner.
Of course I have to make believers out of them by being realistic in my estimates about time and then performing as promised.
The down side is that the work usually isn't very interesting but it's steady inside work that pays reasonably well. I spent several winters doing little more than painting and refinishing floors but I often hired one friend or another who needed work and was good company so it wasn't all that bad.
When there are repairs that need more knowledge than I have I hire a plumber or whoever it is and then hang out with them on the job to learn as much as I can while they're fixing the problem.
BTW, a lot of this work is painting. It's usually pretty easy to find a painter who's willing to do one day's work at at time.
I know of several paint stores in my general area where painters can be found in the morning, drinking coffee in their whites, waiting for contractors and others who have work available and cash to pay them at the end of each day. Most of these men will be able to operate a floor sander too.
Even so, I'm willing to get involved in both painting and floors myself, to keep the job moving and to increase my profits.
With an open and willing attitude, RE agents will love you and will refer bigger and better jobs to you, when asked by homeowners. RE agents are in a pivotal position for tradespeople/contractors. They can use that position to make your business life easy and successful. And you won't have to pay them one dime in commissions, just take care of their work when called upon.
That's a much longer post than I intended but I'm convinced that this is one of the best ways to market my services so I want to share the hows and whys of what has worked for me.
Edited 4/7/2008 4:07 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
i my area the agents can't hire contractors. The agent can only make referrals. To do this they must provide the home owners with a list of supposed reputable contractors. The agent can refer anyone they want, so for this method to work i would have to approach every agent in the area. ......and there is alot.
How does it work in your area?
Yes it's always referrals but I've never come across a law or regulation which requires a RE agent to provide a list of contractors to homeowners. Maybe that's a good thing, making it less likely that there could be kickbacks to the RE agents. But that's not something that I've ever run across when I've worked with RE people.
As I've stated previously, their main concern is finding someone who can get a house prepped for the market so that they can move it ASAP and collect their big commission. They often get more involved as a go-between when the property is owned by absentees, family members who live out of the area.
UGGH
I know what you mean.
Climb out of your igloo and talk to everyone and anyone about what you do and what they think people want. Look at what people are paying for right now.
Gotta be opportunities in low e replacement windows and insulation and stuff like that in these northern parts. GEEZ, with fuel costs, replacement windows could pay for themselves in a couple of years.
There are good opportunities in the replacement window biz. in fact I've had a quite a few offers to come install for other companies. Unfortuneatly I like to stay away from anything were heights are an issue. .......I'm a little affraid of heights, lol
I dont much like heights, but I just see the earnings and chase them. Replacement windows are all done from the inside.
If you are going to cap em, hire it out to a good alum capping contractor.
In our area, figure $300-$400 for window and extra $100 for the cap. (I was going to cap windows for a guy and he was going to pass thru the $100 cause he just wanted to avoid it and get the window $$$.
I'd cap windows all day for $100 each.
The big advertizing companies charge up to $1200 per replacement window. Friggin rip off and people pay.
Hmmm, i like the idea of subbing out the capping. Good thinking. i'm not too sure what the rates are for install of windows in this area. The local guys here are pretty tight lipped about it. i do know that there is a ridiculous range in pricing from one installer to the next. I do my best to be fair with my customers but i want to make a decent buck too. its difficult to know where that is when talking dollars and cents.
thanks
Yep.
With diesel fuel so high, I am pushing my rates a little just to cover the da**rn fuel.
Good way to drive us deeper into a recession.
no kidding! diesel in my area is 1.20/litre. What are you paying?
Brian... i'll send you my copy of a course book i took, with my notes
if you do all the worksheets, you will have a completed business plan
watch the mail... is the 155 Crescent Street address still good ?
This is the Home Tech seminar... i took a couple 2-day courses in writing a Business Plan at one of the colleges, but they were too generic... this is much more practical for construction
one of the BASIC TOOLS for building your plan is your Schedule C from your tax return
say, for the last 5 years .. or the last 3 years
one thing about business plans and any plans ..
think about the 80 - 20 rule...
80% of your profits come from 20% of your endeavors
80% of your problems come from 20% of your customers
80% of the useful parts of a business plan come from 20% of the information
80% of your use of a software program come from 20% of the program
and 80% of all the above is only 20% true... but you get the idea..
in other words....
80% of the benefit of a business plan comes from the process of thinking about, assembling the data, and writing one... after that you can put it on the shelf
but hey, whadda i no ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, that'd be great and I'd really appreciate it. The Crescent St address is still current. Cripes I'm barely done building the place! :) Love the 80/20 rule. View Image
Hi Dave:
We are between $4.10 and $4.40 per gallon.
4.20 converts to about 1.10 per litre so comparable.
We are in the states where everything is really spread out so lots of driving.
nevermind. You are in Canada which might be more spread out.
I've been trying to find a metal roof company to just look at plans--they're all booked up for the summer already. With the snowy winter we had I guess people want metal roofs to take care of ice damming and the like. Do you have any experience installing it, or have you noticed a lot of metal roofs going on up there?
They love metal roofs here in TX. The last one we did in MI cost the guy $700 per square! I think they do them for half that in TX. I did my first metal roof when I was an apprentice. They actually are very easy to do. If you are having trouble, con't be afraid to meet with a rep and learn how to do them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
They start at about 700 a square here too. Are they standing seam down there or exposed fastener/corrugated style?
I'm not doing site work anymore, but I know some of our guys have done metal roofing in a pinch. If we can't get a sub we'll have to go that route.
No I've never installed it. I've sold a pile of it through the building supplier I used to work for before I started my company.
Doctor i live in a small town so i must do everything, We have tough rainy winters here but thats my busy time repairing roofs, Spring is busy finishing the roofs up, I noticed i was slow in late spring early summer so i advertise for fences and decks, I tried everything even had a tree biz and did some masonry work. My biggest plan which worked the best for me was having a fix up house to fill in my time, I always was busy on that and in the long term brought the best reward, I know thats not easy untill one has the money but maybe you can buy one cheap farther away from where you live on a private note.Do one every 5 years rent them and you will have long term benifits, When i bought my first couple i had my crew fill in for the roof and bigger jobs, Sure was tough money wise but worked out great, One can use all your skills plus every neighborhood i did one i was the "hero" for fixing up a bomb and got a lot of work from that. Put my sign out front and people stopped by every day. I see your in a cold place i used to snowplow back east but worked for other people to fill in.
Great solution for small town work. Just being there working is usually enough advertisment to get people calling you. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Sounds like you and i do alot of the same stuff. .....except the roofing, I stay off of roofs whenever possible. My knees arent so good, they tend to go on coffee break without notice. Not a good thing when walking on the edge of roof. lol
Buying a fixer-upper is something i'd really like to do. Unfortuneatly I have only been in business a little over two years. The banks in this area require three years in business before they will even look at me. Hopefully come January I will be close enough for them.
Thanks for the input.
Dave
Dave, I know there are plenty of posts and I am not reading them all. Forgive me if I repeat what has already been said.
The biggest problem I see for small contractors is that they wear all the hats.
They are the salesman, the estimator and the labor.
The problem becomes that when you are on a job being the labor, you don't have the time to be the other things.
One way to help yourself out is to start bidding through someone else, like an architect, interior designer, etc. Find one or two that have work lining up and you provide for their labor needs.
Esentially whatI am saying is to have clients. Clinets with more than singular projects that is.
Since I've gotten into commercial work, I no longer have slow winters. At least not so slow that they affect me or have me sweating. I actually enjoy the freedom on my time off.
I have a couple major commercial clients and I am almost always backed up with work.
Of course, if you want to stay in the residential field it is a bit different. It is no doubt a tough life, especially when every tom, dick and harry with a hammer is competing with you, working out of the trunks of their cars.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
We've started to make some inroads into the commercial markets. We've got two (one small, one a little bigger 100k+ range) that look like they are coming in. We most definitely want a steady commercial presence. So, we have been debating the best method for marketing to that group. What are your suggestions for getting the word out to the commercial market? What type of products are your bread and butter to this group? I'm contemplating attacking it from several angles: direct mail campaign, commercial specific sales rep, etc. I won't know what works till we try something...Any suggestions? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I suppose it depends on what type of commercial work you wish to get into.
If you want to build or sub work on commercial new construction, that is one thing. I've doen plenty of that.
However, the best deal going yet for me is picking up a few clients (national chains) and doing a lot of service, repair, modifcation work for them. In my case all my major clients are restaurant chains. We do a lot of tiel and grout work, interior remodel and changes and basic service to doors and the sort.
The "trick" is getting in with one of them.... even if it is one single location... then if you are providing them with quality work, you'll soon find yourself in high demand at the rest of their locations.
My best client has 35 locations in NE Ohio and 180 in various nationwide markets, I've performed work at most of them and they keep me pretty busy by themselves. Then I have a major chain fast food client that comes through with a nice project every so often. I have a few other clients that are spotty with the work and am looking at picking up a new one that is very big.
It all started by me approaching one of the area directors. Happened to catch him at the right time because he had just gotten fed up with the last company and was struggling to find someone good and responsive. It has been over a year and I am very busy with them.
Just like anything else in life.... the right place and right time matter a lot.
Another big factor has seemed to be that once you land a major client, using that in your presentation to other potential clients goes a long way. They know you must be ok if you are working for so and so regularly.
The nicer thing about commercial clients is that they don't pay immediately or give money down. This weeds out a lot of the low-ball competition.
I charge a fair but lucrative hourly rate for regular hours work and more for latenight work (common in commercial settings for operating units). Most stuff I simply bid one price and that is that.
I don't want to get into particulars of my clients or my prices in a public forum though.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Thanks Pete. You pretty much explained it well enough. Basically, the managers want what we want: good service, no hassles and just get the job done as promised. If their present vendors are servicing them well, there's probably no opportunity. I'm going to give that a little thought and devise a strategy for tapping into some of that market. I'm also interested in doing larger projects and not too clear on how to get them. We currently have a proposal for a firm based in MI that has won the contract to do some tenant work. I'm wondering how the guy in MI is winning the bid from a local Dr and I'm here and they are there?!!! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim you will probably never know. I used to track down sub work on commercial work by showing up on jobs when they first start. Picked up a few things then eary90's the economy went south. I have no doubt that the way some jobs are gotten is by who knows who.
Yes, I think it's probably as good as an idea as any. Thanks. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07