I’m trying to slide a sheet of 3/4″ 4X8 plywood (and labeled as such) from Home Depot into my van and I can’t get it to fit. I get out my tape measure and the plywood is actually 48 5/16″ X 96 3/16. What??? I get it to fit (barely) and I can use it without problem because I’m cutting it in both dimensions anyway, but what’s with this size? And it’s not like 48 5/16″ is some metric size either.
They call it “Golden Ply”. The last time I was there, they had something called “Cabinet Grade Ply” and that’s what I was actually hoping to pick up again, but they don’t carry it anymore. The Golden Ply will work fine for my purposes. I’m making a utility cabinet. It’s 11-ply and finished both sides. It only costs about $30/sheet. The only downside is that it has a bit of a peculiar odor. I’m hoping it dissipates over time.
Replies
Ya, wazzupwidat? Sorry, can't shed any light on this either. I do know that the HD 3/4 finish ply is often some kind of far east import (birch?!!!) that seems to have a built in set or warp to it, not what I would find acceptable for 'cabinet grade' ply.
Some types of cabinet grade are made oversize so that they can be cut down to exactly 4x8.
The oversized stuff that have seen comes 1" over. Industrial grade PB and I think MDF..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Every time I go to the depot, I complain that I got less than expected. Now there is people like you who complain about getting extra!
No wonder they can't get it right!
The only downside is that it has a bit of a peculiar odor
Seams like all the ply that I see that comes out of China has that same odor - I dont know what they use for glue but I'm very suspicious!
Doug
I dont know what they use for glue but I'm very suspicious!
No kidding! This is the same country that thinks melamine is a perfectly good pet food ingrediant, or that anti-freeze belongs in tooth paste. Who knows what will off-gas from that plywood.
The glue's probably made from a mixture of pet food and toothpaste.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Snort!
The glue's probably made from a mixture of pet food and toothpaste
People who shop at the dollar store and their pets will certainly be better off if they are now using that stuff for glue.
Doug
And the left over pets they have poisioned.
http://www.lamanaphotography.com/walmart2.htm
here's more Chinese goings on...................."I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
http://www.lamanaphotography.com/walmart2.htm
dang but that is ugly and alarming.
be may I have your attention please...
Wrudiger makes an excellent point. Given the range of what some countries consider an acceptable food additive I really hate to think what they're willing to use in non food products. Sewage sludge, used motor oil, soylent green? I shop at the Depot but I really hate it. cost savings vs. the time it takes to get in/out and sub-standard building products.
> Seams like all the ply that I see that comes out of China has that
> same odor - I dont know what they use for glue but I'm very
> suspicious!You should be. I kept a sheet in my shop for 6 months, and it started to delaminate. I wound up using supposedly cabinet grade material for a dust collector housing and painting it to seal it.George Patterson
My thought would be kerf allowance since upper cabinets are traditionally 12" deep.
I know that doesnt explain the extra length, but lets assume it does so we can all move on.
"I know that doesnt explain the extra length, but lets assume it does so we can all move on. "What kind of heresy is that!!The next thing that we need to add is a discussion of how many BT'ers tht it takes to break down the sheet into cabinet parts.Or what tools will be used to break down the sheet..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Ay, the china-man strikes again. I have half a sheet left sitting in the shop that's at least 6 months old. It still smells. I bought a couple of sheets for a cheapo cabinet. It practically delaminated when I tried to edge screw it (predrilling of course).
Don , I don't think the odor is from the glue but, rather the core which they say is usually Poplar , who ya gonna call ?
dusty
I have used that stuff and I am convinced the smell is from the glue. Another thing is that it makes a horrible high-pitched whine when I cut it. That sound tells me it is hard on my tooling. (tablesaw, circular saw, jigsaw, all the same high pitched sound) It requires inordinate feed pressure, and reminds me of cutting phenolic board.Cabinetmaker friend of mine now refuses to use the stuff because of the stink and the difficulty cutting it. It feels both toxic and dangerous for the woodworker trying to machine it. It is also very brittle for VC plywood.Bill
Bill
I'm convinced its the glue as well. I've cut a lot of ply in my day and nothing comes close to the smell of this stuff coming out of China. Cant tell me it's some species of wood I'm not familiar with.
Your also right on about the cutting of the stuff, hard as hell on blades.
I worked at a shop down in TX and they used a lot of Chinese Birch ply. You should see what's in the center cores! I've had to widebelt sand some of it down for special circumstances and it looks like they just scooped up all the off cuts and threw them into the press, big voids in the ply where they just threw in a scrap for infill and so on.
Cheap though, probably only paid about $22 a sheet for the stuff compared to $45 for cabinet grade birch and I worked for the tightest guy in TX so that savings was well worth the warped azz stinky shid that we refer to as Chinese Birch!
Doug
Edited 7/30/2007 7:19 am ET by DougU
Chinese wood products seem to be getting better all the time (I don't like having to admit that, but it's true).....but the plywoods I've seen are still not very good at all, and the sheet goods distributors (to the trade) I work with have a lot of horror stories and won't stock it. Delamination is a big problem. My guess with the glue is they are using stuff with lots of formaldhyde in it....we're used to the low formaldehyde glues the N.A companies having been using for a long time.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
"My guess with the glue is they are using stuff with lots of formaldehyde in it....we're used to the low formaldehyde glues the N.A companies having been using for a long time."I guess if the formaldehyde level would be to high, they are not allowed to sell the plywood in North America. Martin
Martin , I have a feeling there are no rules regarding the content or ingredients of these China panels , if there were they would not have higher levels of the bad stuff .
Maybe if we all simply BOYCOTTED the products and for those of us in business it could be a strong sales point , " we only use domestic veneer core plywoods with the allowed and safe levels of toxins er whatever " that could be a strong benefit for the homeowner and end users and help set the quality minded apart from the price minded .
Most of the sheets I have seen are perhaps $20 - 30 a sheet less but if one lets loose and delaminates and causes us to eat or re work a job the savings will mean little .
regards dusty
Thing is, you won't be able to buy anything else in many areas. And lots of folks will still buy the stuff, either out of ignorance or because they're jerks and don't care if the customer's stuff comes apart once they've got their money and vanished.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I don't think there are any regulations against selling stuff with higher levels of formaldehyde....but it won't meet the official plywood standards (there are a couple in use, the most important is propably the ANSI one, which is used by the Hardwood Plywood and Veneer Assoc., the Canadian association, and the Western Hardwood Plywood Producers), and it won't meet spec if the spec is referencing the standards.
I don't think the Chinese care about meeting the standard; at this point, around here anyway I only see it being sold in places like HD and maybe some lumber yards.....going to homeowners/DIY and maybe some small contractors until they get burned. The pros shops won't buy it because of quality issues and because the architects are speccing formaldehyde emissions, and only the North American companies can meet the spec. The distributors to the pro shops won't carry it for the same reasons.
I'm not saying the emissions from the Chinese product are so high as to be a serious health hazard, in which case, yeah, they wouldn't be able to bring it in....I'm just saying it's higher than our product. The new versions of North American ply, particleboard, and MDF have extremely low formaldehyde emissions by the time it gets in our hands.....it's one of the areas we are trying to educate architects about, as around here a lot of them are doing LEED projects and speccing no-formaldehyde products (available, but not many sources), instead of low-formaldhyde (much more widely available, and like I said the emissions by the time it gets used are extremely low), which makes a lot more sense.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
At some point, people will wake up and realize that cheap crap is cheap crap, and there's a reason for it. It doesn't necessarily mean that all Chinese stuff is bad, but the cheap crap from China is as bad as cheap crap gets.
Just wait until Chrysler starts selling those Chinese cars - they're going to be horrible cheap crap, because that is what they are designed to be.
Consumers in general seem to believe that the over riding necessity is to buy cheap crap, and that's why Home Depot, Walmart, etc sell cheap crap. Seems that all of our manufacturers have to buy the cheapest components possible - why on earth would a dog food manufacturer in NORTH AMERICA buy WHEAT GLUTEN from China? Don't we grow a lot of wheat here?
Whether it's flip flops or plywood, cheap crap is cheap crap, and there has to be a way that it's made cheaper. Yes, there are times when I buy cheap crap, but that's generally only when I'm willing to settle for it, and have limited expectations.
The cry is always, 'but it was a good deal'; of course there's a REASON that it's a good deal. Whether it's melamine in the wheat gluten, or smelly plywood.
Hammer & Adrian ,
I completely agree , maybe the U.S .and any other countries that care should simply not allow these products to be brought in.
But that would mean someone would have to stand up to someone , and possibly someone is profitting from this junk , but if I could do anything about it that's what I would suggeast to do.
dusty
I'm betting that the products can't be brought into the EEC.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
> ... compared to $45 for cabinet grade birch ...That's running about $90 a sheet at the local lumber yard.George Patterson
That's running about $90 a sheet at the local lumber yard.
Maybe its been longer then I thought since my last visit to the store!
Doug
Hi Bill ,
Well maybe the glue is what stinks , but I think the core is what causes it to move not the glue causing the warpage we see .
dusty
I agree with you there. So long as the glue stays stuck, it is probably not what causes the instability we see. Lots can go wrong when making plywood: improper (e.g.-uneven moisture content) drying of the veneers, voids, core laps, wrong press temperature, etc.Bill