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Though I have never worked in the city(as its know here in the tri-state area)some of the guys Ihave run into tell me it can be a real pain. The carpenters union may or may not take notice, but they have a union in the city for everything. As for crime I could not say. My advice to you is to live outside the city as the work is very plentiful right now and the money is very attactive. Don’t what until school starts to look at the area come up and look around. I am new to this computer thing and don’t know how all this work but you can E-mail me at [email protected]. it would be easier to help that way.
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Though I have never worked in the city(as its know here in the tri-state area)some of the guys Ihave run into tell me it can be a real pain. The carpenters union may or may not take notice, but they have a union in the city for everything. As for crime I could not say. My advice to you is to live outside the city as the work is very plentiful right now and the money is very attactive. Don't what until school starts to look at the area come up and look around. I am new to this computer thing and don't know how all this work but you can E-mail me at [email protected]. it would be easier to help that way.
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Clay: I helped out a remodelling contractor friend in NYC in the 80's. I'll give some of my impressions (coming from doing work in Calif and Western Mass) and his experiences.
On jobs in Manhatten his goal was to make enough gross profit each day to cover the parking tickets. He tried for a while using the subway (after delivering the tools by truck), but it was just murder getting 4x8 sheets thru the subway turnstiles.
One option is to only take jobs with a secure place to keep your tools on site. Get some of those steel tool lockers.
His work was unpermitted so he didn't have to deal with the inspector and the bribes. My understanding is the bribes are both more common and more blalant than on the West Coast (where I've only been hit up once).
Suppliers, counter people (and people in general) are much less helpful and friendly than anywhere else. But, hey! You're going to have to live with a split personality (friendly indoors, a jerk on the streets) all the time anyway.
I don't think the union guys are going break your kneecaps over little remodelling jobs. They want the really big projects where there is a lot of slop in the job and ways to launder money for their associates. Tight budgets requiring actual physicial work and skills are beneath the big guys.
The surrounding burbs are where a lot of the money is.
He could only found one person who was 1)honest, 2)productive, and 3)reliable. My oldest friend. He married her. They had 40 employees one year. Most were let go after one day. Some before lunch. He couldn't abide employees stealing from him and the clients so he settled for honest and productive (but only show 3 days of the week on average). And one guy who was honest and reliable but destroyed more stuff than he built so they used him for demo work only. The good news for you is that that is the competition. If you're good and treat people well, you'll be the new hot tip that people let their friends in on (like a rent-controlled apartment or a reliable babysitter).
Theft from vehicles? You even need to ask? You will be dogmeat. It is not a question of carrying all tools into the house at the end of the day. It's a question of if you can do it all in one trip. You'll put more hasps, locks, and a Club on just to fit in with the natives and to protect the AM radio and the change in the ashtray. A recent New Yorker magazine had a good article on parking on the street in NYC (vs buying a garage spot). It's a part-time job just to keep your truck parked on the correct side of the street. I have parked a normal (California) car in NYC for 1 day without incident a few times. But never more than 3 days without a break-in. (After which I used a garage).
Good Luck. You probably WON'T need it. While a lot of things will take getting used to, if you've got skills (or the willingness to learn) and motivation you'll do great. Charge at least 50% more than you used to (your costs and hassles will be greater) and they'll still think you're cheap. -David (living a very different life in Kenai, Alaska)
*I'd echo what's already been said about the burbs. There is so much work and so much money being spent it's mind boggling. Parking's free in the client's driveway. No time limits on when you can move material in the elevators. HD's and local yards everywhere.My sense is there's a real demand for people willing to do small jobs. Many contractors are so busy they won't even look at them. Even for substantial work it's often 'call me in 3 months.' Where are you going to grad schhol? St. John's or Brooklyn College (e.g.) you'll look at the Long Island burbs. Columbia or Fordham it'll be Westchester or Fairfield. NYU downtown, The New School maybe Jersey. Mid-town, take your pick though the trains are easiest to the North.If you want the city ambiance, school interaction and campus convenience consider living in the city and doing you work in the burbs. You can rent a high security storage unit for $100 a month in the priciest burbs. Leave your tools there. Park the vehicle out there too and train in and out or park in-town.Mortgage money is cheap. After you've looked at rents (ouch), look at buying a fixer-upper in a neighborhood you can afford. Make it your shop, tool storage, parking lot base of operations. Turn it around for a profit when you leave.
*HEY DAVID! - where in Western Mass? - yb
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Good Luck Clay, and keep us posted on the saga. I'll bet there will be more than a few "you guys will never believe this..."
Lisa
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I appreciate all the tips. One thing I forgot- anyone know the general going rate,per hour,for independents "up yonder?"
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Clay , when you first get here go into the local police precint and ask for a complaint report . Then fill out the pedigree information and list all the tools in your van and the van itself ( given my experience they will leave your dog alone ). You can leave the time and date blank as well as the details ( they will be filled later by the officer. Carry this with you at all times , if you do not need it in the first three months you should be okay.
On the more serious side , there is plenty of work. If you are looking at union work , remember its not what you know but who you know. Residental construction is what you are looking for . There is to much work for the renovation contractor. Look in the outer boros for a contractor who can use a reliable hand ,who knows what he is doing, in the current crunch . This will give you a feel for the way things work . The hardest part of starting on your own is making a name for yourself Just like any where else in this country, even alaska .
Let me know what school and where you are living and I will tell you the best saloons .
Post again if you need help from a kid from Brooklyn. B.H.
*people who live in nyc have cultivated a myth that it's an exciting and wonderful place to be - it's all nonsense - their way of coping with an otherwise miserable existence. do your life and your dog a favor, go to school somewhere else.
*Clay, I am also on the way to NYC, from Massachusetts(Boston) after a two-year detour in Texas. One of the main reasons I've decided to take the plunge is the crazy amount of work my oldest friend is involved in up there. He is more of a custom metal fabrication guy, making thiry-an-hour on a city renovation job. He isn't union, but they have to pay "prevailing wage", which means he gets about what the union guys get. His girlfriend, who I taught how to use a saw six years ago, is building sets for commercials @$20/hr. Their only complaint is that they work too much to enjoy what the city has to offer. One concrete piece of advice, if you can trade your truck for a van before you go, consider it, the laws regarding commercial vs. private trucks are MURDER. All trucks with open beds are considered commercial and cannot park on residential streets, but privately registered(capped) trucks cannot park in loading zones or commercial areas (where you need to be to work). My buddy eventually put his truck in storage in Conneticut, and the way he tells it, saved enough in tickets after a year to take three weeks off in Ireland. A van gets you around a lot of those things, and you can weld a cargo cage inside. Good Luck. Brooklyn has some great places to live, not too far from downtown, which is where the fun is, esp. the East Village. (if you are temperence minded, ignore that) Have a great time.--DW
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There's one more reason to own a van!
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As a resident "upstate" NYer and carpenter/woodworker myself, my experience from the U.S. to Europe and back is:
1. Feed your dog well, well fed means thieves well bitten and won't come back. I hope for you.
2. Take all your tools with you to and from work, if possible, in your vehicle with good locks.
3. Live outside the city.
Good luck kid.
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Clay,
I have worked in Boonton and Kinilon NJ along with Areas of Westchester like putting up an architects version of Falling Water next to Susan Serandons digs....Superman lived down the road, Andre Agassi and dozens of others who need fine work done by honest people...You can make the city work out instead of the burbs just by doing it and changing your system till you're finally clicking along...I love to visit there and oogle the insides of Grand Central or the library, hit the stores, check out the hang outs and restaurants but one thing I'm always being told is ten pm changes all the rules on the street...If you willing to learn the game as you sound you'll have found a grand adventure for sure in the canyons of the Bigf Apple.
Near the stream and always parking in a lot or garage,
J
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Dw
Hey, thanks for the info/insight; very much appreciated. I wanted to ask tho'- how is it that pick-ups are considered commercial? I figure I try and pose as a regular resident who just happens to live on that street, I'll be okay. I mean, some people who live in N.Y. gotta drive trucks, with the whole new truck-craze and everything. Also, I've seen alot of trades double park and such, know anything about this?
*DwOh-yeah, This is actually Clay. I forgot I was on my wife's side of the computer.
*I've worked both union and non-union in NYC for about 7 years so I think I have a few tips for you. First, stay away from the handyman thing, you'll starve, plain and simple. You shouldn't have any union trouble. I was with the carpenters and we worked on big stuff (world trade, NYSE, etc.) You might run into trouble in certain buildings but as an average joe, I wouldn't worry. As far as garbage, parking, and all the other stuff Manhatten is very expensive to do business in. To make any decent money you'll have to work without permits and if you forgot to buy something good luck! On some days it's taken me 2-3 hours to go buy a few items. I would estimate that I have been towed, for one reason or another, about 35 times, and they don't do it carefully. Of course I didn't care because it wasn't my vehicle but it is a pain to get the vehicle back, TRUST ME. Honestly, your best bet is Long Island or Queens. For me and my friends it's been a goldmine. In the summer you can build decks till your hands are bleeding. After we all got laid off from the union (long story) started working out there and I put myself through college to get out of this horrible business. If your a halfway decent worker, all you have to do is place a few adds in the local papers or penneysavers of some of the better spots in Queens and Nassau county, you'll have more work then you know what to do with. There are 1000's of HD's and other suppliers out there and no one will bother you. Of course you'll have to deal with the LIE but that's another can of worms. I can go on for hours but I hope this helps. Another last option is hooking up with a builder. A buddy of mine just got a job framing on L.I.'s south shore for $700/week cash. I visited a friend near there recently and houses were being built as far as the eye could see. Keep these things in mind and try to find your own spot in this insane city.P.S. Buy a van with no back windows and a cage if you've become attached to your tools.
*Hey Clay, I live and work on eastern Long Island, and recently went out on my own. Out here, there is no shortage of work by any means. The usual hour rate is between $35-$50 per hour. A lot of guys travel 1-1 1/2 hours just to work out here. We also get a lot of "rough babies" out here too- guys with no skill, or care. As far as the City, I know a few guys who would travel to NYC for specific clients, but they swear they wouldn't do it again for the reasons you stated. The elevator guy wouldn't let him up(unless you pay), too many Goomba's who's hands you had to grease, garbage problems, parking nightmares, etc. Stay away from the city. The eastend is great, and there are colleges that aren't to far. Email me if you need mor
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Those rates are not prime. In the pricey Fairfield County burbs unskilled immigrant laborers (leaf raking, lugging stones, cleaning basements, etc.) are being paid $15-20 by homeowners who are glad to get someone at those rates. (Nothing negative intened about immigrant labor, it's just that these rates are with the language barrier, you pretty much use sign language unless you happen to speak Spanish, Ukranian, or whatever.)
A couple a friends hired a group of guys from down south 3 years ago to do some projects. They were basically framers but could do some trim, some drywall, some plumbing, etc. Sometimes you had to have them do things over. Paid them $25/hr and thought it was a bargain.
So a good craftsman with good English and his own truck and tools should be able to do better than that today.
*Bob: I was in Northampton and Belchertown in 1984-85 installing solar hot water system mostly in the Connecticut River Valley and sometimes in the Berkshires. Had a beautiful commute to a different job site in the hills each day. -David
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Clay- I live on the eastern end of Long Island,
and just recently went out on my own as well. I
know a few guys who have traveled to NYC to do
jobs for specific clients. Thats a 2 1/2 hour ride
on a good day. They have all said the same things:
You have to grease the elevator guy every time you
want to use the freight elevator. You can't park,
and if you do, you have to keep one guy with the
truck ALL DAY! One guy took trash to a land fill,
and a Goomba made him reload his truck, and gave
him a phone number to call for a garbage pick up.
The city is a looser, and besides, those NYC girls
will probably eat you and the dog alive !
Out here on the eastend, there's no shotage of
work. Guys travel up to 1 1/2 hours just to work
out here. The pay is good-$30- $50 per hour if
you're on your own with tools. Good craftsman are
hard to find now a days, so people are paying for
them. There are some good collages that aren't too
far away as well. Stay away from the city. I have
yet to hear a good story. Good luck, and emai
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I am a twenty-something (late) carpenter recently gone independent(one year)working in a smallish Va. city. I
am moving to N.Y.C. for graduate studies and plan to take tools, truck and dog with to try and defray expenses, trying to stay out of the maintanence/handyman end of things. Some things that keep me awake at night range from: Is the union going to come get me? Do I pay the mob to take care of trash? How do I deal with cranky supers? Do I carry all tools into the house at the end of the day or is it a matter of a couple more hasps and locks on the truck box and a Club? Basically, am I dogmeat? Any tips (shady or otherwise), stories or hints appreciated. And feel free to throw in a "Good Luck, kid" in felt necessary.
*Good luck Clay.May God be with you and shower you with a Rainbow of Fortune in your new endeavour.And.....don't let your dog out of your sight....They have been known to eat them alive!! especially if you choose to crash in a loft above a Chinese restaurant.