My roof is leaking.
There’s a four inch lead jack about where the stain on the ceiling is. I don’t see any crack in the jack. But I see three nail heads across the bottom of the flange. It does not seem to leak a lot. Is it possible that water is going down one of those three exposed nail heads?
Replies
That's possible if those nails seem loose. Ity's more likely to be a number of other things though.
Is the lead crimped down over the pipe at the top or5 is the pipe talle5r than the lead?
Are the top and two sides of the lead covered with shingles and are they sealed to it?
How old is the roof? The most common leak I see here is if the shjingles are worn or cracked uphill from the boot and letting water in above which just finds it's way in to the roof at the penetration from the soil stack.
Did this leak just show up? or does it have a history? Did anything change or happen in that area just prior to it beginning to leak? How bad is the leak? Describe volumn of water and when it happens.
The doctor needs a history to make a diagnosis.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
The roof was a complete tear off and replace in 1999. The pitch is not too steep. It's real easy to walk around up there.
The stack looks 5 inches tall and 4 inches in diameter. The lead looks to be bent over properly. It looks like my roofers re-used the old stack and it's probably a 1963 model.
The shingle cover the top of the flange and come down about even with the soil stack. The bottom half of the flange is exposed.
I have three spots on the bathroom ceiling. Two are old time silver dollar size and one is dinner plate size. The blown in insulation in the attic is 8 inches deep. So it does not seem to be leaking very much.
This just started and has no history. No changes to the house in that area in that area since the roof went on. It snowed here maybe two inches twenty days ago.
I don't use the front bathroom so I'm not sure just when it happened.
Edited 12/23/2002 4:47:02 PM ET by FarmerDave
If it is a reused lead boot, chances are good that it haad a hole or two in it that didn't get caulked as well as it should have. The lap over of shingles is a little shy too but that is always a variable according to layout and judgement.
I would CAREFULLY back those nails out by working a flat bar up under the lead and wiggling them out. Use silicone if you want but I prefer Geocel caulk for this. Caulk under the lead bottom flange to the shingle to stop water from backing up under it. Be sure to get caulk right where the nails go. Then put a little dab on top at the nail hole, replace each nail, and dab caulk over the head.
Now, be sure the upper shingles are sealed to the lead also, by working the flat bar up in between to CAREFULLY lift the shingles, stick the gun nozzle up there and caulk to seal so that water won't back up or work horizontrally to any old holes in the lead.
If the shingles are too brittle from cold, take the wife's hair dryer up with you. It can also help dry any moisture out you might find so the caulk will stick better..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
What would your opinion be of replacing the whole lead stack? Any idea of what a new one costs?
I thought you said that it didn't seem to be too bad/
Plumbing supply houses have them. Price it locally. Most new ones are a metal flange with a rubber collar that snaps to the pipe and dries out in ten or fifteen years but only costs a few bucks. I haven't ever bought a lead one. The hundreds I have used were supplied by the plumbers or were already on the house.
If you totally replace it, you will most likely be replacing a couple of shingles too..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
I could take the lead stack off of there and put one of those galvanized deals with the rubber center on in it place. But I'll bet the stack is black iron pipe and rust will run down the roof. That's going to be ugly and there's no time to paint it until spring arrives.
Probably caulk is the answer. It's either a harline crack or one of the nail holes.
The roofers left bundles of shingles sitting around when they reroofed the place. One night a bundle of them quietly walked into my basement. So I could replace a few shingles, real easy.
"One night a bundle of them quietly walked into my basement. " LOL
As an ex roofing contractor, I should hate you for that - but then if I were your roofer, you wouldn't be needing them now to fix my leaks.
Good luck!
Maybe they'll walk up the ladder and install themselves like elves..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
It amazes me how people now brag about stealing things. Used to be a shameful thing.
Yes, but in the old days I also remember the tile guy who handed a big stack of left over ones to my father and told him to keep them in a safe place so he'd have matching ones available for future repairs.
-- J.S.
I've done that for almost every individual homeowner I ever did a roof for. Except one.
She was a welfare queen who kept trying to get more and more out of me and acting like I owed her for the chance to be on her roof. I had five bundles "left over" and when I started to load them up, she said those were hers that she had paid for and that I wsa not to take them.
I pointed out that she hadn't paid for anything yet, beyond the 30% deposit on the job, and that the contract spelled out that I was providing labor and materials to complete the roof, not her doghouse or whatever else she thought she would do with them. I had had it with her and I was young then so I was short, if you can imagine such a thing.
she said she would call the insurance company and make sure that I wouldn't get paid. When the adjuster called about it, I calmly explained things and picked up the check the next day.
The "leftover shingles" werre really not extras. If I measured at say, sixteen squares, I would always have an extra square delivered to save emergency runs for more to cover mistakes, waste or damaged materials since I could always take them back. That was my insurance cost for the job, out of my "profit" if they disappeared. I would also use a bundle or two of other culls/damaged/leftovers from previous jobs for the starters to extend that "extra" cushion of insurance. And sometimes, if I made an error in calculations, I would be paying for those extras out of my pocket but the customer would still get a roof for the contract amount.
I sure would have been surprised, iof I came up a bundl;e short on a job with a heavy rain on the way, to have the HO say, "I think I might just happen to have some of those same shingles in my basement".
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Most still do, I think. At least it's common practice around here. On the other hand, if I happened to find that extra bundle of shingles, tiles, etc already stored away in the customer's garage or attic....no telling what might happen.
I think the roofer promised me an extra bundle in the beginning.
You should see how the corner treatments turned out. The gutter man said, "I can't believe they did that."
The ceiling in the family room where the tear off man fell through and caught himself on the rafter never has looked right since.
How much is a square $20? and $7 for a bundle?
If you don't have a spare bundle will a repair ever match the original color.
Should not a roofer give the HO the first bundle? Should I have gotten new lead stacks ( properly installed too ) ?
If you promise not to lose sleep over it....I promise not to tell anyone!
I just left 9/10th of a box of tile at a customers today.....wasn't even my job...I was subbing....I'm not even sure if the GC or the customer paid for the tile......
I don't even care! How's that grab ya thieving bunch? The lady should have a few extra...there were a few extra....I don't need to call headquarters to see if common sense should prevail......she got the extra.
Any thing that might have to be "matched" in the future....a few extra should be left when possible.
What....are we all new at this?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
It's all in the question of how many 1 5/8 inch drywall screws are in a five pound box.Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
That depends on whether or not you pick up the ones that drop.
At least 6!
and I stand by that answer...even if ya dropped the box.
6 it is.....at least.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Jeff, you are comparing 2 very different things. You left 9/10ths of a box of tile AFTER the job was done.That's very different from the customer STEALING a FULL box at night midway through the job. Imagine how great YOU would feel to reach near the end of the job and find you were short the 1/10th of a box you needed to complete the job.
Personally, If I had been the roofer on the job and something simple like a WSF started leaking after very few years----I would like to know about it ASAP so that I could correct the situation immediately.Even if the job was out of warranty. But if I knew the customer had been stealing from my stock....................
It's one thing to ask the roofer to leave a bundle if any are left over at the end of a job----quite another to steal one and sneak it into the basement under cover of darkness!
I'd just ask the customer where the hell is the rest of my stuff!
I know I estimated right..so where is it?
Customers "borrow" what they think to be "extra" materials all the time......and I estimate extra materials for all but the smallest ot special oreder jobs anyways...so who cares?
The guy took one bundle of shingles on a full reroof......I'd hope ya have at least one extra bundle of shingles on every job to spare.
I don't see this as a big problem in the grand scheme to things.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Actually Jeff,
It ends up as a pretty interesting situation.I am in the interesting position of doing many VERY similar jobs.For instance a few blocks from me is an area of homes built in the late '40's very early '50's. Sort of a Levittown style neighborhood if you know what I mean.when I estimate a project there,I always double check my measurements------but I already know how many shingles I need before I even get out of the truck.It is gonna take me just under 11 square.I know its gonna be 11 square cause I have done the neighbors house,the one across the street,and maybe a dozen others within a 1 block radius.Its 11 square.
So at the end of the job there will be about 10-12 leftover shingles which I will leave with the homeowner.If the homeowner asks me in the middle of the job about an "extra " bundle---I will be happy to arrange getting an extra bundle free of charge---at my convenience.Interesting enough ,most of my customers don't even want the 10-12 leftover shingles---let alone tripping over a full bundlea bundle only cost 7-8 bucks right.Actually a bundle of what I usually use is gonna cost me at least $13-14 which is still chump change.But at my crew rates it's gonna actually cost me WELL over $100 bucks to run out and buy that
The original poster on this topic mentioned something like whats the big deal---suddennly missing bundle PLUS the $13-$14.Plus the extra time spent on this needless errand may well make me late for another prospective customers' estimate appointment---or worse yet may make me miss part of one of my sons athletic events.----when you do as many roofs as I do,there are quite a few days each year that it begins to rain as we are packing up and leaving for the day.This customer could well have caused his roof to be un-finished when the "monsoon" starts.
this guy made an assumption without knowing the actuall facts.
some day we will talk about the customer who figured"whats the big deal" and hid a freakin' engine block in our dumpster under a pile of shingles. LARGE backcharge from a very irate trash hauler
BTW, we take a lot of personal pride in our accurate estimates.My best has been a 70 square roof with 18 shingles left over.I am always a little embarrased to return shingles,but occasionally I do over-order
If I estimated for 70 and and came up with just 18 singles left....
I'd say I underestimated and got lucky!
I don't like to run close...I like extra.
18 in 70 square could have easily been 18 the other way.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Jeff, you are right, the 70 sq. estimate involved a lot of luck! I would have been happy to hit it within a full sq. or so.
however, proportionally, on those 11 sq. "levittown style" houses it is quite reasonable for me to expect to hit my estimate within a bundle-----considering I have done so many virtual clones of the house in question.
Locally, I can hit my estimates on severall other houses just as close,proportionally, because I have done so many of those "models" as well.
I will be doing a 150 sq. job soon---wonder how close that material estimate will be?
BTW, I notice my estimates of time & materials for work to be completed with my own hands are very precise---but employees and sub contractors are comparatively profligate in their consumption of time & materials----just adding to the estimating fun.
Also, you don't feel compelled when replacing a 34" door to order a 36" door---just to make sure you have enough door for the opening do you? LOL!
Sure...
You can always use the 2" rip somewhere else anyways, right?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Jeff, just save that 2 inch rip and use it as roof sheathing.
On two different occasions I have torn the roof off of a house and found doors used as roof sheathing----once hollow core doors on a house that was originally a "lakeside"cottage,-----and a couple of years ago it was barn/shed doors on a pretty nice little arts& crafts bungalow. the shed doors still had big butterfly hinges on them.
When I redid our own bath...tore out the old tub surround......wanted to repair a leak so out came the old plaster/rocklath ..........and found the studs had been covered with the same insulbrick that had been used on the exterior at one time.
Never understood that one. Maybe a moisture barrier? I forget now how exactly it was attached.....but it was under the rocklath.
Found that...and tons of newspaper......that one I'd seen before....insulation.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
LOL Justice always prevails, one way or another.
Odds are that in twelve years when the wind tears a few off, the ones you have won't match the ones on the roof after UV, dust and mildew. but they'll be close enough for an old roof.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius