Sometimes I forget how fortunate I am with my customers. Essentially 100% of my work is referrals, so that probably has something to do with it.
I have been helping a friend with his overload while I have been waiting for my proposals to be accepted, and I am amazed at the problems he has getting paid. His customers don’t pay ubtil the job is 100% complete and acceptable. Now, most of his work is in the under $5000 catagory, but still that is a bit of a hardship. And he tends to underprice his jobs, so he doesn’t have much room to take the time to do it right. I feel sorry for him.
I’m doing a small kitchen remodel now, and the second day the wife asked me if I needed any more money. And that was after she gave me a door key, offered a tv and/or radio for noise, pointed out my bathroom, and showed me the stocked refrigerator and said halp yourself.
Another job I’m in the design phase of, a 4,000 sf condo finishout, and the other day the client asked if they should have their insurance agent add builders risk insurance to the policy to cover my work. And while we’re slogging through the design and then the permits, they are finding small jobs for me to do on the ranch to keep me busy.
Back to my underbidding friend … anyone want to hazard a guess as to how much he charged the HO for this brick paver job? It came out to almost exactly 50 sf of pavers, 1/2″ thk real brick. I’ll even make it worse: the home is a second home for a foreign national, who visits about 4 times a year for a week, and there’s a Hummer in the garage. The bricks were just washed, so that’s why it looks wet.
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Edited 10/2/2005 10:50 am ET by FastEddie
Replies
bump
4 minute bump.
A new record.
Am curious as to the pricing.View Image
cu invented the feckless dastard
Rez ... I can't believe someone beat you to a bump. You're slipping.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
300?!
That's it?
Around here (North NJ) I understand tile labor is $5-$10 sf.
I would have charged more than $500.It doesn't look as good as the door, but certainly not crap.What the heck is a 'bump'?
YeeHAAA! george c.
This job should be about 1000-1500 plus material. I suppose he charged about 500. A day to cut and install 1/2 day grout and clean-up.
I dont know what he charged for it but it looks like crap. Its obvious at a glance they are not bricks or pavers. They are cultured brick veneers and are not meant for foot traffic.
There's a clue why he has a hard time getting paid
I don't understand "cultured brick veneers". These came from a factory in Plant City Fla, and were made just like a real brick. They had been flashed to get the colored edges. Tell me more.
to All: he charged $300 for labor and materials.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Just look at the joints. the mortar joints on the top of the stoop dont line up with the mortar joints on the side. Those are 3/4" thick at best decorative brick veneers.
Wont last!
They look to me like they line up.
You gotta be kidding
The lineup is off by at least the width of the grout line. Easy to see in th eright edge, but apparant in the rest of them.For Texas standards of tile work, and the low wages down there, it seems about par to me, but would not be acceptable here in the NE part of the country.Ed, Don't be feeling sorry for him, teach him sound business principles instead.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I looked at the pic agaiun, and i don't see where it's off.
Hey ... for $300 labor and materials, it's good.
I feel sorry for him cuz he can't see the forest for the trees. he thinks he's doing them a favor with low prices, and/or he thinks if he bids higher he won't get the work. I try to preach "Jerald Hayes" to him, but his eyes glaze over mid-way through the first partagraph.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 10/3/2005 7:42 pm ET by FastEddie
If he bids twice as much and gets half the work he is better off.
>Hey ... for $300 labor and materials, it's goodThat depends on the quality the customer expected...if the customer is happy with the work, then fine, but if the customer expected a better result, then price isn't an excuse unless both knew that going in.
>Hey ... for $300 labor and materials, it's good
Well, that was a poor choice of words on my part, wasn't it? I guess the point was, if the job had been bid and sold properly, a little more time could have been spent on the little details.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The point I am trying to make is if your going to use fake brick at least try to make it look like real brick. Look at the picture. The surface bricks are 4" wide. The verticle pieces should have been cut to 4" as well. They are not. there is an 8" long veneer over the end of two 4" wide surface bricks.
Could'nt look more fake
I really think it's just the angle of the picture.Save your typing fingers, Maverick. I'm not kidding.
The pavers are only 1/2" thick. And every joint lines up.
Ok, this might be part of the problem. The paver color was "red wine flashed" I think. The basic color was a burgandy and the edges were dark brown-grey. The grout was supposed to blen with the flashed edges. That might be causing an optical problem Either that, or you need glasses. :)
If I remember correctly, flashed brick is done like this ... part way through the baking process, oxygen is shot into the kiln and it flashes, causing a temporary high temperature whjich affects the edges of the brick, usually making it darker. looks kinda like bread with crust.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 10/2/2005 9:05 pm ET by FastEddie
I agree with Piffin.....................maybe you can get away with that stuff in your area...........wouldn't happen here in New England, because of the weather more than taste. (I know a guy, you'd recognize the name, richest guy I ever worked for.........couldn't buy a cup of good taste)Those thin bricks work on a vertical surface here in New England, and they look like what they are................fake brick..........there's no getting around it. They would not work for a stoop here, they're just not durable enough. And I'd never, (NEVER!), try and sell this stuff to a customer. Same thing with cultured stone. (I know, I know..........it's looks just like the real stuff!)But!!!!!!!! Let's all say it together now!!!!!!!!!!IT"S FAKE!!!!!!!! (phony, wannabee, whatever.........it ain't real)That said, for $300.00 bucks, ya gets what ya gets.
Ok, it's not real, full thickness brick. But, it is not fake. It is real clay-based, kiln fired, wire cut brick. It's just thin.
Now, as to the issue of taste. It's what the customer asked for.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Just to be clear, I wasn't doing a put-down. Having lived in Texas, NMex, and CO, I know where tastes and standards vary, but I do think your buddy could do better if he took the atitude of working himself up instead of running himself down. In any market, there are customers who wanbt the best, and the ones who can afford it, have probably traveled and have seen good and bad work to be able to discern, tho there are some who have bneen three times around the world and still couldn't regognize good taste if it slapped them in the face with a bowl full of yoghurt
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
from my days many moons ago from firing many a kiln i think what is happening to get darker edges is not so much an induction of oxygen as a "reduction" firing where you temper the draft but maintain temperature reducing oxygen both entering & exiting the kiln "cooking" the silica and iron to a golden brown
Uh ... yeah!. That's exactly what I meant to say.
Thanks.
But why do they use the term 'flashed'?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
$300???? I just got paid $200 for framing in and hanging a new door in a customers bathroom...and that wasn't nearly as much work (not to mention hassle!) as laying a brick patio!
You've gotta sit down and have a talk with this guy. He needs to realize that his time is worth more than he is currently charging. How does he make any money??Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Sorry, not my cup of tea; I "guess" the HO got a good deal. Here's where I have a problem; see the puddle in the center, the wide grout/opening on the right side, the non-center of the vertical bricks on the "face," no bull-nose on the step edge, etc?
I don't know; you do get what you pay for so on that level I "guess" it's an okay job.
The bullnose ... one of two situations exist ... either the vendor did not offer a bullnose piece, or my friend was too cheap to buy it. The lack of a decent nose condition is probasbly the biggest fault in the job.
The grout joint on the right is a little wide (and the foundation is wavy so it makes it look worse), but what you can't see is the left side. It happens that it ends exactly on a full tile. If the layout had been shifted to close the right side gap, it would have caused a problem on the left. And there were no extra tiles. There was exactly one tile left at the end of the job. The grout lines could not have been opened a little to make up the difference cuz it was laid basketweave, and wider joints would have ruined the pattern.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt