Not my area of expertease, but is it cool to put vinyl siding directly on top of OSB sheathing, w/ out tyvek? I am watching my neighbor’s $150K addition go up as such. The builder looks like he knows what he is doing. No self stick flashing around the doors/ windows either…
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Learn more about the benefits and compliance details for the DOE's new water heater energy-efficiency standards.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
NO!
The vinyl siding does not keep water out. It may slow it, but he will have moisture problems sometime in the future, probably sooner than later.
Either the builder is cheap, or stupid, or lazy, or a combination of all.
I'd rather have the housewrap and no vinyl than vinyl without housewrap!
Well said!
Dustin
That is what I thought. Hadn't seen that one before and wanted to make sure it wasn't a new way to do it. I was going to point it out to my neighbor, but he called me " doom and gloom" for suggesting that it might no be the best idea to build a post n beam shed and pour the slab around the sunken posts. So I'll just keep my mouth shut because some people just don't want to hear it...
Don't say a word.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
sure ...
as long as the house wrap is dumped for something better like felt!
get yer foot in the door ...
send over a flyer advertising "water damage repair" ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
I do not envy you in your position---except if you specilize in home repair----NO house wrap or tar paper or anything---What the heck is up with that ..........unbelievable.................
it's new wav of some sort and more common than you would believe..
no felt...
no house wrap...
no VB...
and no ice shield...
under anything..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
heh heh I'm waiting to see diagonal supports let into the 2x corners with drywall, then fiberglass batts between the studs pressed against the backside of the vinyl siding.
be sheathing? Don't need no friggin' sheathing
Free Sancho!!!
give it time...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
worse yet , i saw studs sans let ins with iconene between and styrofoam sheathing
in snow country!
don't think he knows...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Imerc, they just made it mandatory around here to put housewrap on per code. I've probably seen a million houses over the years without any. They only required it under brick areas.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
here there isn't any under the brick, shingles, siding nor are the windows and doors flashed...
you'd appreciate the 24"OC exterior walls and the 32"OC interior walls and no headers over the pass doors and smaller windows...
double plalting, cripples, jacks and trimmers are missing too...
archy shingles on the front slope of the house and three tab on the back of the house..
sparse anchor bolts...
how about 1x4's for top and bottom plates on the interior walls...
and this is what you can see from the street... can't help but wonder what else is missing...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Edited 2/25/2005 10:40 am ET by IMERC
I'd love to walk through a house built like that, after it's finished and give the walls a shake or two to see if they are any floppier than what we do here.
you'd appreciate the 24"OC exterior walls and the 32"OC interior walls and no headers over the pass doors and smaller windows...
The 32" oc sounds excessivley wide.
double plalting, cripples, jacks and trimmers are missing too...
Most situations don't really benefit from double plates. I think it could be demonstrated that double plating interior walls is a waste of lumber.
archy shingles on the front slope of the house and three tab on the back of the house..
Hahahahaha...I'd really love to see that.
sparse anchor bolts...
Anchor bolts are a total waste of time here in Metro Detroit. I know for a fact that the vast majority of houses in the metro area were built with no sill plate and no anchor bolts or straps. I framed new houses for about 7 years before I ever put a sill plate down.
how about 1x4's for top and bottom plates on the interior walls...
That's an interesting idea. Clearly the bottom plate would easily suffice. If you used precut 96" studs, you'd be a little too tall. I'd recommend using at least one 2x4 plate with precut 94 1/4" studs instead.
and this is what you can see from the street... can't help but wonder what else is missing...
I'd also be interested in whatever other "corners" were cut. The only thing that I would absolutly rule out for my own house would be the 32" centers for studs. The wall board would be too floppy for my tastes.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Your neighbor's builder is following the pictoral advice given by Larry Haun in "How to Build a House". Larry never says to leave it out, but the photos say different! Check outpage 23 as one example, the book is riddled with photos showing this condition. 'Course there aren't many hard hats or safety glasses being worn either!
Housewrap or felt under vinyl - my opinion only!
Jim
I might have mentioned this somewhere else.
If I travel one direction from my house I run into a development of houses between $275K and $350K. Not a one with anything but OSB under the siding. Vinyl windows with the built in J channel around it, naild to the bare OSB. Not a piece of felt,paper, housewrap or flashing to be found.
In the other direction is a development of homes between $300K and $400K. Last time I drove thruogh I couldn't help myself. I stopped and asked about the whole no felt or housewrap thing.
I was told " That stuff isn't worth the effort. This house is SUPER SEALED". Ya know I had to ask. Turns out that for an Extra $1500 per house the builder will have his laborer run around inside your freshly framed house and caulk any visible joints in the OSB with some Acrylic Latex painters caulk. I guess if ya don't know any better it's $1500 worth of piece of mind.
Turns out that for an Extra $1500 per house the builder will have his laborer run around inside your freshly framed house and caulk any visible joints in the OSB with some Acrylic Latex painters caulk
That's funny!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Funnier still,
It's a move-up neighborhood from where I live now. Not too long ago one of my neighbors was moving there (a Masters degree holder working on her Phd Ironically enough) and she asked me about it. At the time I was still self employed and running a small framing crew. I told her there was no such thing as " Super Sealed " and that she would do well to insist he wrap the house or find another builder to buy from.
After his sales pitch she came back and told me I had no idea what I was talking about and that I had better get up on the latest materials and practices or I would never make it.
Just ran into her the other day. Funny, she asked me what I thought could be causing her moisture probelm.
Now that's funny. Did you tell her it could be her not trusting your advice in the first place. Some people know everything and you can't convince them water is wet. It's tough to learn the hard way though.
After his sales pitch she came back and told me I had no idea what I was talking about and that I had better get up on the latest materials and practices or I would never make it.
I think that statment pretty well ties into the sound proofing concept that I was trying to make.
In a sales seminar, we were taught that the majority of people will accept the opinion of the last person that they talk to. They sway back and forth, like a tree in the wind. The best salesagents know how to sell and close...obviously that guy knew his craft.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
It is probably more than just knowing how to close a sale.
Most of us run into it from time to time. It is wanting to give more credance to the apprently more successfull individual.
I see it all the time, and roberts' former neighbor is just one of the examples of sucess dealing with success. It goes the other way also. Those that don't have a clue believing the big guy over the small contractor that has been doing repair work on thier homes for years.
I ussually just say "is that right?", and chuckle to myself as I walk away.
BTW this issue of felt or house wrap was covered a year or so ago. i think I put a post in my code book, but IIRC , neither is required by the IRC. I'll look it up and post it after I come back from the shop this afternoon.
Dave
Whether it's allowed or not I've seen Tarpaper eventually stain Vinyl siding around the weep holes.
DPR
Good point.
SanchoRon the caballero bowed low as he waved his sombrero and said goodbye.
FREE SANCHO!!!
some vynal mfgr's say no felt...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
When I built my home 32 years ago, I covered it with 1/2 inch plywood, cdx, then bricked it with no wrap. I was told by an older builder that it didn't need it due to the brick. I have not had any trouble that I can see. I live in Tennessee where the weather changes alot. It was 60 degrees yesterday, it may snow tonight. Do I need to worry?
after all this time why worry..
if anything was to happen it already did...
be Alfred....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
be very afraid....
lord only knows what's going on behind our brick..
don't you think, after 32 years , you oughta poke a hole and take a look ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good one...LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Restoring, Remodeling, Reclaiming The Quality..
"I have not had any trouble that I can see."but you cannot see in the places where the problem would be, can you?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It is probably more than just knowing how to close a sale
I don't think so. I dont' agree. It's been said that a sale is always being closed...either you are selling your idea, or you are buying their idea.
You've said that "...I ussually just say "is that right?", and chuckle to myself as I walk away...." If that's the case, you were just sold something...you didn't find a way to close your sale.
The case I'm making is that good sales people could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. In this case, the poster wasn't effectivly making his case for housewrap. If he was, the other guy could not have effectively sold his style to the homebuyer.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue, I admit that I am not a salesman. My primary focus is remodeling and repair work. I see a lot of good work and questionable stuff in the repair end of what I do. I do my best not to comment on questionable practices by anyone. What I do sell is me, or more specfically what I do best.
Checking the 2002 KY version of the IRC;
Section R703 Exterior Covering
R703.2 Weather-resistant sheathing paper:
Describes min. weight and ASTM D 226 requirements, followed by application requirements per Table R703.4 (first reading here indicates felt or house wrap is required)
Table R703.4
Looking in the colum for Sheathing Paper Required, I go down tool vinyl siding and find "no" in that colum.
Basic answer is that by the IRC building paper or house wrap is not required behind vinyl siding.
That only leaves the question of good building practices, and the lawyers to sort that out
Dave
I've seen houses out in the county that use OSB for siding, some painted and some unpainted. It doesn't look real good, but evidently does the job of keeping out the elements on a limited budget. What did we do before housewrap? I like to visit old falling-down buildings that have no felt, no housewrap, and so on - maybe over a hundred years old. The primary problem on these buildings is poor foundations, probably because the folks who built them did not have frost line figures.
If you have a good, solid overhang and the openings are properly flashed, the vinyl siding will keep out most of the driven water. The regular pattern of holes in the vinyl, along with the flexible connections, provide plenty of air infiltration to dry out the OSB to ambient humidity levels, unless you live somewhere like Washington State, where the semi-continuous rain changes the equations.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge those who have figured out that DuPont is once again making a lot of money for little value added.
On that note, I know someone in England whose house (at least the original one-room part) is around 800 years old and still standing. Walls are ####couple feet thick (wattle and daub?). Thatched roof will last a long time if it is done right, but not too many people know how to do it anymore, like so many things.
I'm sure it is still standing because the builder used Tyvek.
Eat junk food; watch junk on TV; build junk.....it's the American way...!!!!
I don't watch TV and try to eat fairly decent... at least I got one out of the 3.