What’s up with employers/boss’s and supervisors that are totally closed to input and ideas from employees in particular, and all others as well?
What is it that runs them this way?
I’ve always agreed with; “…..none of us is as smart as all of us.”
So why be so closed minded?
What makes an employer/boss or supervisor open to hear and consider, if not implement new ideas from employees and others?
I’m truly serious and curious about this. Seems to me there is so much to gain or loose depending on which side of the line you choose.
Let’s hear your thoughts on this.
Eric
Replies
I'm both the boss and the employee...
neither of us listens to the other.
Just so long as you agree............................[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
that the way it was in the outfit I work at...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
sounds like gooberment work
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
In my experience it is all in the timing. Owning my own business has given me the chance to work with many great employees, and some not so great. Almost all of them, at one time or another, thought they had a great NEW idea. I always listened, but most of the time the suggestion was not viable due to any one of a thousand details the suggester was totally un-aware of at the time. After awhile a business person gets really tired of someone saying 'hey, this would work better'. Like I was some stupid old fool who stayed in business all these years by shear 'freakin' luck. Of course I could be wrong.
Like I was some stupid old fool who stayed in business all these years by shear 'freakin' luck.
Let me play devil's advocate..............why on earth would you assume that is what someone was thinkg?(or assuming)
We read, we take classes to nurture or minds and expand our ideas. Do people who write these articles and books asssume that people in business are stupid fools? Or, perhaps do they think that there are open minds out there, willing to let in new and innovative ideas?
I've been on both sides now. My experience tells me that employers often forge forward on a path of their own creation, created in the vcuum of their own thoughts and imagination.
If no one is a smart as all of us, why not give up trying to be THE innovator once in a while to see if an idea has merit?
I write this with all due respect and with no intention of antagonizing you or anyone. [email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I think part of it has to do with the boss admitting he doesn't know it all. when you have all the responsibility on your shoulders, who wants to admit they don't know what they are doing?
Being that most construction bosses are guys, and then think about how many guys will stop to ask for directions when they are lost! Sort-of the same deal. "Full speed ahead, even if we don't know where we are going!!"
That's not really the best way to describe it, but that is the best i can do for now.
Another thing is as an employee, my version of the "whole picture" was usually quite a bit more limited than the guy on top.
My $.02
Bowz
Why does it seem to me that MY posts in particular bring you out of lurking??
C'mon, join in the fun![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Why does it seem to me that MY posts in particular bring you out of lurking??
'cause you and I seem to share a lot of the same thoughts and questions. Besides I came out to play in the real estate thread!
And my home 'puter has been gone for a while.
Bowz
Sometimes, it just bullheadedness. But a lot of the time I suspect its not the message, its the delivery.
Saw a guy, I don't mean it disparagingly but he's on the lower end of the construction totem pole. He knows, sort of, how to build a small deck. Thats about it. He's talking to a GC standing in front of this GC's 4500sf house, saying "ya, I oughta build a house, I mean, there's nothin to it. You tell everyone else to do their job and take the check, ya know."
When what he meant was hey, you got a nice house here, I'd love to try it, I wish someone like you would tell me what I don't already know about it. But I don't know that he actually posessed the tact to say what he meant.
Or looky loos walking through a parade house. What they mean is, if it were my house, I'd want this different, and whatever "it" is, they're just admiring the place and trying it on for size in their mind. But what they say, to the builder, is "you shoulda . . . "
Feelin charitable today, ain't I?
Real trucks dont have sparkplugs
Contract must be especially attractive to people on an ego trip...
you get to boss workers around and treat the like poo and most will take it to get paid weakly...
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, wrote the book, built the theme park...
Welcome to Breaktime
Home of
The Aristocrats
i think their is a bit of truth in what everyone has said...
alot of truth in....
those that can..... do... those that can't.... teach
how many times have you heard a guy who has 3 weeks or 3 years on the job... say.... "man if i was run'n this place i'd make a million dollars" and chances are he's right.... cept they are make'n 10 million dollars now....
kinda like... I wish i had 10 customers just like you...... problem is i have a 1000... 10 i could deal with...
i know i suck at most of the things i do... but it's my frick'n things i'm doing... when i tell someone what and how i want something done... i've already done the thinking... just do as i ask please.... just today i had to leave took 20 min show'n a guy what i wanted done & how... 1/2 a day later i get back and he re-engineered what i wanted done... with the help of my plumber..... he spent the rest of the day undo'n what he did... because neither of em knew why i wanted it done the way i wanted it done...(even if i did tell the guy.... i'm real good at explain'n what was well as why) so i've got a guys full day of labor do'n & undo'n... which puts me a day behind...
advice is usually worth what you pay for it... or less
p
Maybe I was clear as mud, but a couple of you guys missed this alltogether.
More tomorrow, out of time tonight.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
the why part? man i don't know.... i only have a few guys that work for me... and i encourage them to tell me i'm full of crap and to show me a better way... I always know there are "other ways" and I know from how i did things 10 yrs ago vs how i do it today... that there are better ways/materials/tools to do every job...
as the person who not only builds designs & engineers 90% of whats on my job... i have a picture in my minds eye of every step & detail... not sure how much we save if we have to stop & talk about a 20 min job.....
only real answer i have is....
people suck sometimes
p
a good sharp boss will pick up everything he/she can from an employee -
as a boss, I don't expect an employee to have full grasp of the 'big picture' - there are many paths that may be danced as a project is herded toward the finish line, and it's the boss's perogative/responsibility to choose -
personally, I don't mind dicussing the big picture with employees, but....
don't stop working to do it!
tell me you'll be there 20 minutes early tomorrow, "I've got some questions."
or "can I stay after work tonight to talk about a situation?"
just don't stop progress...
exception is safety concerns and equipment problems -
What's up with employers/boss's and supervisors that are totally closed to input and ideas from employees in particular, and all others as well?
Sometimes business can be a democracy and sometimes it can't. When I have 30 things to attend to and there is a standard way for a crewmember to do something, I'm not likely to spend too much time listening to their "good intentions."
If someone wants to change a standard procedure I ask for some evidence that it's a better way. Usually it's simply a hunch or someone's gut feeling. If they can show me it's better we'll all switch over.
Along the same lines, there is a concept that all carpenters need to understand, but few do. It's the idea that we all have a "circle of influence" that represents how much we are able to impact those around us either by words or actions. People seem to either get this or they don't.
Good judgement, knowledge, interpersonal skills, carpentry skills, reliability, etc., help to increase our circle of influence and more people listen to more of our ideas.
Some people are harder to get into the circle and are resistant to listening to others, but everyone listens to someone.
If your personal circle of influence is small, that's not the problem of everyone else--it's your issue.
Good building
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
When I was building I always had guys pitching in with advice. I always welcomed it (especially in the framing stage) cause unlike some guys i know I can f--ckup in a heartbeat. But then I didn't mind mind telling the guy he was full of it either.
I think ChuckKiser hit it pretty close. Employees go to owners all the time and tell 'em what they oughta do. But the owner has been hearing the same stuff for years. He may hear one week that he needs to buy a new truck. Then the next week someone says he needs to buy a new Lull. Then someone else will come in and tell him he has too much overhead and he shouldn't buy anything. The owner also knows that the employees can come and go anytime they want to - They have no personal or financial stake in the company. They get paid whether the owner makes money or not. Of course - I'm partially guesing at all of this, since I've never been a business owner. .That's not to say that employees don't HAVE sound ideas. But I think the bosses tend to be a little guarded anytime employees come to them with suggestions. ESPECIALLY if the suggestion involves smoething that will benifit the employee directly.
A wise man fights to win, but he is twice a fool who has no plan for possible defeat. [Louis L'Amour]
boss, I think you and kiser have nailed it.
further----in my case---a lot of the things I do------ i do because i just LIKE doing them that way----- that's part of the reason I went into business for myself----to do things MY way
I didn't really take the risks of starting a business to provide a creative nurturing enviornment for an employee----- i am not interested in that AT ALL.
Primarily- I am interested in doing things MY way ( I do like to steal good ideas from a variety of sources)---------
ALSO--in all likeley hood------ I may have tried the employees suggestion 10 years ago---long before the employee ever became an employee----and found the problem with it-----------------or I might immediately see that the employees suggestion might work OK 3 out of 4 times----but this instance it won't work properly
but basically--- I am interested in doing things MY way--not the employees--------and I encourage employees to take THEIR ideas for a test drive in the marketplace themselves------that's the beauty of the system------------
Stephen
What is it that runs them this way?
In most instances, you are dealing with type A people. They tend to be control freaks. Control freaks is probably a harsher word than really applies, but you know what I mean.
If they read the book First Break All the Rules, they'd probably be the type of manager that you prefer to work for. If I was you, I'd send the boss an anonymous copy from Amazon and hope he reads it. If that doesn't work, find other employment and when you are interviewing, make sure you interview your potential boss and select one that is more in line with your jobsite philosophy.
I know you are serious about finding out how these guys tick, but I think you should be posting your question in a Psychology forum LOL!
For the record, I've been both types of boss, so I understand a little bit about both sides. I've also had bosses that are both ways and know how to work with both types. Since I've got jobsite stones, I'm not opposed to doing things exactly the way I want to do them, then packing my things because I'm fired. I "go there looking and leave there looking".
blue
"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
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