The trusses are being delivered today for my branch. I’ll be there tomorrow to take some pictures when they are set and will post a couple. Here’s a page out of the shop drawing package of one of the bigger ones: 9-1/2 feet x 64-1/2 feet. I didn’t count, but the superintendent says there are 160 different trusses for the building. Looking at the drawing package, he’s not far off. I think every one is different. Sorry for the file size, but I wanted to be able to show the details.
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
Ought to be interesting. What do you mean by "my branch?"
A pic of the plan view truss layout of the roof would be good, plus some photos of installation.
Not really out of the ordinary for what I typically do. Pretty lousy web pattern, IMHO.
Got a PDF of the layout?
I have a print of the layout, I'll see if I can get a pdf.
I don't know squat about truss design. What's wrong with the web pattern?
Gene, it's a 4300 sf branch bank.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"What's wrong with the web pattern?"
Panel lengths would be my mani concern. If you look at the right end, they have B.C. panels that are over 12' long. since the chords are SYP you KNOW they aren't gonna be straight. Adding panels will help with that somewhat.
But off to the left they have panels that are only 3' or so. That wastes lumber, labor, and plates.
I took a crack at designing that truss, and attached an example of what I would likely do.
My panel lengths are more consistent. The max panel length is about 9' 7" on the B.C.
They used 14 webs, and I only used 13.
On their design, look at webs #W4 and W10 - They both require 2 rows of bracing. Their design requires 7 web braces. (Or CLBs)
My design has no double CLBs, and only 5 braces total.
I'm pretty anal about how I design trusses. Most guys just blow through the design process and don't worry about details like I do.
So pardon me for blowing my own horn a little bit here, but -
My design would produce a better quality truss that's lower in cost. It would also require less braces, which would save the framer money.
so that's why I was criticizing their design...
I don't lie, cheat or steal unnecessarily.
Ok, talking about the original truss, I see joint lines in the bottom chord at points 15, 17 and 21. I don't see 3 ft panels, but I do see distances between web connections that are that length. What do you call a panel?
Why do you suppose web 4 has two rows of bracing when web 1, which looks to be longer, has none?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"I see joint lines in the bottom chord at points 15, 17 and 21."
Those are splices.
"I don't see 3 ft panels, but I do see distances between web connections that are that length. What do you call a panel? "
By "panel", I mean the distances between web joints.
Shorter panel lengths help restrain chords when they try to bow.
"Why do you suppose web 4 has two rows of bracing when web 1, which looks to be longer, has none?"
Web 4 is in compression. (Same with Web 10) But web 1 is in tension.
When a web is in compression, braces are required to keep it from buckling. More compression means more braces. Webs ni tension often don't need braces.
Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.
I wonder what the whole roof is supposed to look like. There's no usable space created by that strange humpy-bumpy business on the left side, so it must have been designed that way purely for decorative reasons.
-- J.S.
The roof has hips and valleys, because the floor plan must have bumpouts and jogs. Stay tuned . . . you'll see.
Those humpy-bumpies will all make sense when you see the entire roof.
"There's no usable space created by that strange humpy-bumpy business on the left side, so it must have been designed that way purely for decorative reasons. "
All the pitch changes probably follow ridge and valley lines in the roof.
It will make a lot more sense once you see the entire roof.
Someone asked me if I knew what time it was. I said, "Yes, but not right now."
Ok, try this. The truss I posted is approximately the red line. The roof at the bottom is the drive-in canopy. The square turned 45* at the top right is a tower about 10 ft higher than the rest of the roof.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You know, I really hate this trend in building. I hate arbitrary roof planes, stupid meaningless front-facing multiple gables on little houses, busyness being propounded as "style" . . .
All the stylistic parts of a building should reference eachother in some meaningful way.
Otherwise, it's like putting a decorative tattoo on a birthmark.
Forrest - bitter; waiting for the vodka and V-8 to kick in
Edit - OTOH, I think you're a great guy
Edited 1/10/2007 6:51 pm by McDesign
C'mon, Forest. Take a look again, and focus just on the big rectangle, the big hipped principal roof.
Now look at the various bumpouts, each of them hipped. Then look at the hipped tower.
Think of it now as a grand old house, really nice and old, built originally to the big rectangle with only one of the bumpouts to define the main entrance.
Then, over the years, they hired guys like you to do the added bumpouts, and then finally they hired, you, actually, to do the crowning achievement, the skewed tower in the corner. And, it was all your idea!
Now have another drink.
Feel better?
Thanks for the restrained response! I guess I'm just pushing my personal opinion as fact, and not even in the Tavern.
Not sure why I went off on that. But still, it's a bank. Should look like the Parthenon or the US Patent Office.
Severe. Classical. Serious. Dripping with stability and probity.
Forrest - had the other drink
bitter; waiting for the vodka and V-8 to kick in
At least you admit it.
If they didn't have these stupid designs, all the building would have flat roofs.
blue"...if you just do what you think is best testing those limits... it's pretty easy to find exactly where the line is...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I kinda thought from the picture of the truss that I wasn't gonna like this. But I reserved judgement. Oy, was I ever right. ;-)
-- J.S.
Boss,
This isn't a wood truss but look at the Glue lam threaded thru the truss.
Had a heck of an argument between truss manufacturer and building engineer on this one.
What was the argument?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
TJI didn't want to see the glue lam threaded thru their truss at that location. If I remember it had to do with the loading . I don't remember all the details now as to why.
I will admit I was hoping TJI would win. Getting the lam in there wasn't fun,(well it was fun , just stressful) mostly due to site considerations.
Are those TJLs ???I alway hated dealing with Truss Joist Corporation - They're arrogant and a pain to work with.What was the big argument about?
Give a man free hands, and you'll know where to find them. [Mae West]
Boss,
Yes, TJ stuff, I had mixed feelings about TJ, local rep was great , distant engineering was really great at times, not at all helpful at other times on this project. They provided some other trusses for other areas of the project. In the end it all worked out though.
Read my reply above as for the argument. I now also remember that TJ wanted a deeper truss, larger top member if I recall. The argument got into engineering details beyond my limited understanding of loads and stresses.
When we threaded these together there was less than 3/8" room for clearance to do so.(Actually the trusses were threaded onto the gluelam correctly speaking, somewhat like holding a thread still and pushing the eye of the needle onto the thread.)
Biggest trusses I've seen in real life (not counting bridges) are in the final assembly buildings at Everett.
View Image
View Image
Edited 1/10/2007 10:45 pm ET by junkhound
Those are some huge trusses. I have been through some of Boeings buildings. Impressive stuff.
Spent the summer of 2000 working the Everett facility as a customer rep. Pretty darn impressive. What was most impressive though was the logistics/organization of supplies arriving from all over the world with little time waiting to be put into the assy line. Oh.. and the wing machine. Oh.. and the fuselage buildup areas. Oh... and...
Oh yeah - One more thing -
Trusses that size are definitely prone to toppling. Be danged careful in bracing them.
I've been on WAY too many jobsites where the trusses weren't braced well enough and simply fell over.
Pay particular attention to diagonal bracing for the braces. The braces are of little use unless they're secure themselves.
Looks like you're missing a chord between B2 abd B3 to W1. That's not intentional, is it?
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Just kidding... Be curious to see them fly in... Buic
You call those punny little things "trusses"?
Here are some trusses for you.
http://www.artseditor.com/html/october02/oct02_ica.shtml
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11414
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
That is one big truss!
So, is the horizontal portion at T2 for southbound traffic and T4 for northbound?
I thought you did remodeling? Sounds like you are now a framing sub?
Better than that ... got a white-collar salary job, with bennies.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt