So, I answered an ad for free firewood a week or two back–Couple big Oak trees downed in storm last winter. Partially cut up–sectioned and laying on the ground. Excellent firewood for sure but today I went back out with a friend and to work on the other trunk of this big tree that had fallen the other way up in the brush.
I hadn’t really looked closely at it when I came out the first time and once cleared I could see it was pretty big. We were able to saw it about in half, and drag out each section.
My question is this:
Now I have 2 logs about 14′ in length. The oak is of the red variety–Oregon Black oak I think.. Both logs are clear–really clear. 1 is 16″ or so dia, the other about 22.” The homeowner just wants it gone. Probably pretty clear of nails and metal–not being in the city. I was originally after the firewood, but looking at these logs today I started thinking it might even be irresponsible of me to cut up this stuff up just to burn it!
I have #’s for a couple guys who mill logs–one guy did a friends tree, ’bout 200$ a log. I have nowhere to store or sticker it–would experience quite the bout of ‘spousal resistance’ if I put more of what she thinks is junk in our yard.
So is this a gold mine–an opportunity not to be missed for some fine material or is this just a big ol’ farm tree that’ll make great firewood.
Input?
Replies
waters,
I have some friends who are in the business of milling oak here in Ore.
Located a couple hours N. of you .
Mostly they mill dunnage stock but do some boards.
Oregon oak doesn't have the "red" of "Red Oak" , it is not as white as "WHite Oak" either, somewhere in between with a dusty color to it when finished IMO
Drying Oregon oak and having it remain stable for working seems to have been a problem historically. Why I have no idea.
Notchman may know a lot more about this issue.
Try giving him a shout .
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
thanks. I'll wait and see if Mr Notch is has his ears up so to speak.
bump
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Black oak has similar characteristics to red oak. It's less rot resistant because it has a similar cellular struct to red oak. And it's a little softer than white oak, but only by a few degrees.
While I wouldn't recommend it for fence posts, for interior wood it's great. I cut up several thousand feet of black oak for a friend of mine several years ago, he took it to a small custom dry kiln outfit, then had it planed and end matched for flooring and it was beautiful and remains so today.
For the guy who is considering getting it sawed, I would recommend getting it sawed ASAP and then ASAP to a decent kiln. Air drying is ok but kiln drying gives the wood a "set" which means the cells are more stabilized and the wood will serve more predictably in a finished form, whether for furniture, flooring or whatever.
I've done a lot of boatbuilding over the years and wooden boat builders, when building tradition lapstrake or carvel planking, prefer air dried wood, because the water tight integrity of their hulls is dependent on the wood being able to swell when in contact with water, thus sealing planking gaps.
For hobby wood, or interior finish wood for residences, you want the greater stability that properly kiln dried wood provides.
A lot of wasted tree species are gold if handled timely and correctly, but most often, unfortunately, end up as fence posts or in the wood stove or bonfire.
I have tales about jewelry boxes made of Cascara and high quality violins and violas made of western maple and my own crib sports a lot of Western yew timbers.
If the OP can put together a good sawyer and a competent dry kiln, he can end up with some fine wood that has some of his soul and heart in it....and maybe save a few bucks; it doesn'cost any more to dry and plane 5" or 6" planks and the potentials are much greater.
Good luck!
Thanks Notchman , I hope the OP reads that . I have used some Oregon oak , but don't know if it was "black " oak or not. Did a couple of staircases out of it. I purchased it from the friends mill where they did have a kiln until the place burned down a year ago. I am aware that there is some use of it now for wine barrels here locally."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
"For the guy who is considering getting it sawed, I would recommend getting it sawed ASAP and then ASAP to a decent kiln."
Thanks for weighing in.
As far as getting is sawed ASAP--this tree has been down thru the better part of a wet winter. It appears these twp logs from the main trunk are fine but I'm not informed enough to know if nature has already begun to take its course and the wood is compromised. What do you think?
And I have no idea about a kiln in or near Eugene. How much cost is that likely to add and if I can't find a kiln, is it still worth it?
I have #'s for a couple guys who mill logs--one guy did a friends tree, 'bout 200$ a log. I have nowhere to store or sticker it--would experience quite the bout of 'spousal resistance' if I put more of what she thinks is junk in our yard.
So is this a gold mine--an opportunity not to be missed for some fine material or is this just a big ol' farm tree that'll make great firewood.
definitely not a gold mine - but of real value to certain persons -
no place to stick/store puts the pressure on -
give a call to the sawyers and see if they have a suggestion - they might buy the logs (relatively cheap) - or know someone interested in the wood -
run an add in the local paper/shopper/pennysaver/trader
good luck - I hate cutting saw logs into firewood - seems like such a waste -
I've had the same fever b4.......
a couple of qualifiers...
1. Is it a "yard tree"? In other words, was it in someone's front or back yard. These trees are notorious for buried metal. Nails, chain, barbed wire, little do-dads that the tree swallowed. Most Sawers are suspicious and some downright refuse to cut a "yard log".
2. Like you said, this is gonna be quite a pile. And I've never seen a stickered pile look too good.
3. Takes a while for that pile to dry. Like 2-4 years.
4. At $2-$4 a board foot, is it worth it.
I aways have a need for sawn timbers, might be worth the wait if you can see a specific project in the future. And there's always green woodworking.
You might consider "giving" to a Sawer who will return the favor later with some really wild boards you can chew into right away.
Or.........the clear stuff burns without out a crackel.....
Waters,
I'm surprised at the amount of poor information you are getting..
Oak today sells for around 80 cents a bd.ft. rough and green at the sawmill. That's what you are working with. a board foot is one inch thick by one foot long and one foot wide.
White oak is decay resistant, while red oak isn't.. It takes about a year for a 1 inch thick board to air dry.. air drying has benefits that kiln drying doesn't offer.
Wood value is based on how nice the board is. Knots decrease it's value. Grain deviation decreases it's value. Nice straight grain is highly desired. Red oak once dried planned and ready to use is worth about $4.50 per board foot.. that is your possible gain..
Based on your discussion I'd think you have around 250 bd.ft of usable wood.. The center of a log isn't worth much.. The curved part on the outside (slabwood) is useful as firewood only..
So if everything is good and they aren't fence logs which are just as bad as yard logs to sawyers. you stand to gain about $1125 dollars..
MY sawyer charges 50 cents a bd.ft. for custom sawing.. that is you bring those logs to the sawmill and pay him about $125.00 and he'll do his best to get you the nicest boards possible..
You might contact woodmiser and see who has one of their saws near you.. they provide a list of those who have it and you can call them to find out what their chrages are.. often the deal is a split if the sawyer expects good wood. that is he gets a board you get a board, 50/50 split.. if they don't make that offer that should indicate the true market value of what you have..
If you'd like details about how air dry or anything else askI'll be glad to share..
frenchy,
If you don't mind. I have lived in Oregon for almost 40 years.
In that time I have known a lot of people who looked at the Oregon oak and saw $ .
I know that the Universities here have tried for years to develop markets for the wood.
I know that Oregon oak has been shipped to France for chemical comparison to French oak for wine barrel staves and that the result was that there was no developable market for it.( This is wine country for Gods sakes so a local supplier would be welcome ) Furniture makers, cabinet shops, barrel makers, etc.
I know of several who invested their life savings into trying to market this wood and lost all they invested. There are a lot of stands of oak out here, but a lot fewer than 20 years ago when any stand of size that could be bought was bought and chipped and sent overseas. Literally thousands of acres chipped up because there was no market for the sawn lumber. I know of only one mill that handles oak here on a regular basis and has it as their main product. Their product is dunnage for rail cars, shipping , and trucking. I have known the owners for thirty years. (since they started the business) On this one I would trust what Notchman has to say.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Hello,
I've done what you are talking about (i.e. milling storm downed black oak). Here is my opinion:
There will be insect damage in the sap wood, so you'll loose about 2" or more all the way around.
If you wait too long there will be insect penetration (and probably black staining) into the heartwood. That in and of itself doesn't ruin the wood, but you will have to work around it. The tree I cut into lumber was down for probably 2 years before I got to it.
Make sure your sawyer knows what he is doing. There is a way to cut a log that minimizes uneven stresses on an individual board. When I was first learning, I knew something was wrong when boards would be bending in odd ways right as I was cutting them. Took some practice and study to get it right.
Drying:
Hope this helps,
Roger <><
I don know much but I was going to add the same thing.
Nephew works a band mill full time . Short story is , he went to prison and let his wife run it for a while . They had a contract with Riverside Furniture taking all they could haul to them. He cut a bunch of trees into logs before he left for prison to set her up to just saw logs . She took too long to work them and they lost their contract because of such damage . What I understood was water staining Red Oak with black rings or lines in the wood and slightly discoloration.
Tim
and you didn't add that story to the "red neck" thread....
"here baby i sawed and stacked the logs... now you're all set up to saw em into boads while i'm away in prison... theres enough there to feed you & the babies til i get out... love you..."
response...."oh i know my man loves me he set me up with a big ole stack a logs to mill while he's away in prison.... i love that man"
p
No mention of a trailer so not quite good enough for the "redneck" thread I'd say...
(I lived in one as a kid so I can joke about it!)
LOL
91912.22 in reply to 91912.16
No mention of a trailer so not quite good enough for the "redneck" thread I'd say...
(I lived in one as a kid so I can joke about it!)
Ive seen plenty of trailers better than their house .
Tim
From:
ponytl <!----><!---->
Jul-5 5:41 pm
To:
Mooney <!----><!---->unread
(16 of 22)
91912.16 in reply to 91912.13
and you didn't add that story to the "red neck" thread....
"here baby i sawed and stacked the logs... now you're all set up to saw em into boads while i'm away in prison... theres enough there to feed you & the babies til i get out... love you..."
response...."oh i know my man loves me he set me up with a big ole stack a logs to mill while he's away in prison.... i love that man"
p
What can I say? Love is what love is baby!
Tim
Interesting--all points taken.
This tree was down for 6 mos or so thru the rest of a wet winter. Things look clear and clean although the 6 or 8" at the center of the logs is far darker than the rest which is clear and light colored. The tree was still connected at the root so perhaps this is from what it sucked up after falling? Is that the color of the heart wood?
I have found "Urban Lumber" company who will mill it on site--75$/hr, 2 hr minimum plus 45$ set up. Said the two logs would be about an hour and half's work. Then I can transport to his shop where he has a kiln. He charges .30$ a bd ft to dry it. Mentioned something about proper humidity in drying it so I think he knows what MRSLQ was speaking of in honeycombing if dried too quickly.
Looks like for less than 300$ I can get these two logs sawed up and dried.
Worth a shot to me, I think, even if the wood doesn't turn out all that great!
Dark wood is the heart wood, normal stuff from what you describe."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
i cut some big spruces and wanted some planks cut outta it, I could never get any of these mill guys to show up or do it
That's because spruce, and I assume you had Sitka Spruce, is one of the most miserable woods to saw. The wood itself is fine, but the knots, especially the big ones, are harder than the hubs of hell and even the big bandmill saws will often run off line through a knot.
The old growth Sitka spruce that was used for aircraft manufacture is mostly gone except in a few reserves and in Olympic national park.
lotta work for no real gain oak is low priced right now, know guys who pulled out of market for awhile until prices go up someone mentioned "yard" oak having nails, it's a problem lot of moving around, have to store it until there's a use and move it again seen a lot of logs like this, too much trouble to mess with
We had a sawyer cut about 500 bd ft of downed Scarlet Oak here in NJ last year - I stickered it and have it in my lumber loft. It took about 9 months to go from 35% MC to around 8%. I painted the end grain to help with checking, which needs to be done right away - even so the ends check. I'm guessing 1/2 to 2/3 of the square-edged boards after discarding the waste will be usable.
Sawyer charged $75/hour for about 2.5 hours time including travel time.
Jeff
I bought a couple of Garry oak logs from a firewood supplier about six years ago and took an Alaska mill to them. They've been air drying since and have lots of degrade, but they will eventually end up as a dining table and chairs for me.
Probably not a real economic proposition, but a satisfying one.
You might inquire if you can trade the logs to one of the band sawyers for firewood. Many times they also sell firewood. If the logs are nice, you might interest them in a trade. That way you get the firewood you would have gotten anyway and the nice logs go into usable lumber versus up in smoke. And your marriage will be safer!!