my sparkie…. one man band/ truck (and i had to get him the truck)
grew up with his little bro who got killed in the service… so i’ve know this guy since i was 12… I’ve shot him at least 70% of his work/income for the last 4-5 yrs…
he does good work… refuses to do anything halfazz… and for the most part knows his stuff…. BUT he makes up alot of code…ie invents it … says it and now it must be so…… so i spend more than a little time show’n him what he says just ain’t so… just for the record in all the time i’ve been dealing with him… i have never been wrong…not that i know but i research it before i say it….
on my jobs our deal has always been i pay him x $$ a week against a 30hr week which gives him time to do service calls and keep other customers…. sometimes he gets or i get gigs for him that take a full week and pay better than i do and they keep his foot in the door for other jobs… in those weeks i don’t pay him anything…
he does all the keep’n up with his time on my jobs….
week before last he missed 3 days… i still paid him the full week…. last week i asked him… do you want to me short your check so we’re cool or do you want to put in more hours until we are flush…. at which time he says… I only owe you 5 hrs…
now… granted i don’t keep track of em… but i know his math is off…. seems he forgot one full day he wasn’t there… but still says “i don’t go by the days i go by the hours” ok… so he says (this was last friday) just don’t pay me at all for this week and i’ll know there won’t be an issue…. so i go cut him a check minus 8hrs cause i know it’s more like -16 but i didn’t want to argue the point….
he leaves without get’n the check…
shows up today…. sits in his truck for 45min while i unload a truckload of steel… i finish… i go back to welding…. he comes back and starts on a rant about me not trusting him (this is the same guy i gave 15k so he wouldn’t lose his house and bought a truck for…. took 2 yrs for me to get even on that deal) i’m try’n to work… and he keeps talk’n… so after 45 min i ask… “ok whos time are we on and when does you clock start… when you rolled up and sat in your truck or when you actually start to work…? his reply was… “man we’re talk’n about your job” to which i replied… no you’re talking and i’m try’n to work… if i wanted to talk i’d have found you… you came and found me… at which point he get’s pizzed and gets in his truck and goes…
he’s 3 weeks behind from when he promised he’d have an inspection done… and wants to argue points with the inspector for 2 hrs that would take 15 min to do… then he wants to tell me about it… read the code book… call the head inspector…. go to the inspectors office… talk some more… all over something that’d take 15-30 min… he’ll invest 2-4hrs in…
Mostly i just want to kick his butt… (like 5x a week) but… he has good points…ie: good quality work… and actually cares about his work…
but he lives in a world of “poor me” “everything bad happens to me” “i’m the good guy that always gets walked on” ect… not once has he ever thanked me… for keeping him in work… finding work for him….. he cuts me no deals even with the fact without me he’d have lost his house and not had a truck… according to him I’ve increased his income over the last couple years by a factor of 4…
I’m so ready to kick him to the curb…. i hate conflict… i have fun everyday just working… and he ruins a good hour of most of my days…
ok i’ve vented
if he wasn’t 5’4 and 120lbs i’d have already beat his azzz 20xs
p
Replies
Life's too short, look for your kicking tee. Sounds like you have given it a very good shot and deserve better.
thanks guys.... sometimes someone else say'n what you already know just helps out...
he didn't show up today so i guess he quit....
i really don't know what happens in someones life to make anyone what or who they are... but everyone who has ever had contact with this guy walks away shake'n their head.... you'd think someone stole his truck, kicked his first born and bedded his wife everytime he hits a nail with a drill bit...
it's so far off the chart that for me... i guess i'm just amazed that anyone can go through life like that...
anyway... guess i need to find a new sparkie
p
Edited 5/30/2007 9:30 pm ET by ponytl
mid age crisis.A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do...
Thank God he did not show up
In 25 yrs or so I've known a half dozen people like your guy;unfortunately I was also their bank,not good.
I'm currently assessing a 5800 debt with one of them and have decided its just not worth it anymore.I can empathize with their situations,but I simply do not have several hrs a day to hear of thir bad luck.When subs or employees become the hardest part of your job,its time to thin the herd.
DK
You know. I was gonna apply for the job. Until you used the S word. No wonder the guy has an attitude. You need to learn to talk to people. :)
Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese. G.K Chesterton
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
Edited 5/30/2007 9:23 pm ET by Gunner
>>but everyone who has ever had contact with this guy walks away shake'n their head.... you'd think someone stole his truck, kicked his first born and bedded his wife every time he hits a nail with a drill bit... << You didn't say anything about shooting the dog, but of course that happened, too, didn't it?
I used to be that guy. For some reason, I honestly believed that life was supposed to be fair, and that I got to define the term. I had my head firmly up where the sun doesn't shine and kept it there for years. Didn't even START to pull it out until I quit drinking and had to move to a room about the size of a jail cell for $100 a week.
Close to 20 years later, I'm still trying to catch up.
Son of a bitch, I keep running into that guy I used to be. I don't like that guy very much, and I really don't like to have him working for me. In the interest of fairness (and to pay on the massive Karmic debt) I really stretch to give the guy enough rope to hang himself and then loan him a knife to cut the rope.
True enough, cutting him loose for a bit of a vacation will make him either sink or swim. It's going to hurt both of you, but sometimes you need pain to be able to grow through the pain. He may swim away for good or he may swim back to you and try to pull you under. Make it at least a month or it won't do either of you any good.
Good luck to you both.
P.S. You didn't mention if he drinks or fools around on his old lady. Either one can get in the way of making it to work. If he's drinking, wait 'til he's got 90 days in and made at least 90 meetings AND that he's got a sponsor with a sponsor.
It's too late for me to be making much sense. Have a good night. Stay safe, and may God bless. I wish you His peace.
Dan
if he wasn't 5'4 and 120lbs i'd have already beat his azzz 20xs
Whatsamatta? Too big fer ya?
LOL....just bustin' chops.
I used to have the same relationship with my brother. He's a painter. Kept him rolling for years, but he always acted like he was doing me the favor just showing up to the job.
He took his gig to the city. I love him.....but I don't miss him.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
JEEZ lou EEZ you are a soft touch. I want to get hooked on crack and come live in your dumpster. I know you would take care of me and never let me miss a meal.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
And you are an electrician...........
I think we have a match!
Maybe its time to find a different electricain just for one week, maybe two. Then see if he comes around.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If I could cuss on this site I woulda let out an entire line of epithets! You could have it so much better.
I got three different licensed, insured journeyman electricians that do work for me on various jobs. One is a solo guy. One is 2-3 guys. The third is 5 guys. They are all excellent (except for one helper on crew #2, and I've let that be known), they all stock tons of parts, they all know their stuff, they all charge fair money, they all answer their phones every day, they all get me those pesky insurance papers, they all get permits and pass inspections. In fact, they all drive nice white vans. And man, I live in podunk compared to youse.
None of them clean up very well. That's the only downside.
I saw you shoot that dude to the curb for a few weeks. Try out someone else. If you want to help him, that's one thing, but it sounds like you also want to rely on him and that ain't working.
Going through some of the same stuff with my friend and partner. I finally came to the realization I am a push over. I'd rather bitch about it then confront him with the issues.
I always thought I faced things up front and left know doubt what I thought but not with him. We've shared life and all the same stories but after hearing them over and over again for the last 20 years I think it's time to walk away.
I've finally decided to stop working with him. He takes up to much of my mental time. Hell I didn't take this long to leave my first wife.
You answered all your own questions and you know what you should do. Trust me your family will be glad to have you back.
Yure one cool dude.
Everyone has to be in business for themselves. It dont happen until they do.
He needs to be outta the nest for a while on his own. He will be back a better man.
Sides , youre treatin him like your little brother.
You gotta like him so do what he needs and be cool about it which I know you will.
Tim
Most guys don't do well when they're too dependent on others. The signs of rebellion you mention indicate that he wants to cut ties with you but doesn't know how. More frustration for him.
Do yourself and him a favor. Tell him the truth...from your perspective. Then cut him loose and let him figure out what to do next, on his own.
You're a brother and a friend. Take what satisfaction you can from having reached out and helped him.
Next time you feel a responsibility to help someone, remember to put some reasonable limits on your generous impulses, and stick to those limits.
Been there...several times. It gets old real quick when they show you no respect. But that should be seen in it's true light, the need for independence. Too bad that need has so many negative ways to express itself.
All the advice above is good. I don't do business with anyone unless we are doing business. Give and take a little but everyone gets the same treatment, including my son and brother who work for me. Want paid for those hours, then show up. Want time off? Schedule it like everyone else. Need a new tool? Ask me and I will look into it.
If you truly don't like conflict you need a self sufficent business man. What you have now is a babysitting job for a child that knows electricity. DanT
What you have now is a babysitting job for a child that knows electricity. DanT
man... you read... understand.... and say in one line what it took me a full page to say...
thanks for say'n it so clearly
p
Sounds to me like you've given him a lot of breaks. But going soft on him and letting him get away with too much stuff may have given him the idea that it's O.K. to keep doing the same thing virtually forever.
I wonder if you might actually be doing him a favor if you come down hard on him - Maybe even fire the guy.
If you want to stop short of that, maybe have a "coming to Jesus" talk with him - Make it clear that you're not gonna put up with the present situation any more.
Based on what you've said, I think he needs more of a kick in the butt than more coddling.
Im only commenting cause i was in the same boat, I had one man that worked hard but only wanted to do what he wanted, I only did enough work to keep him busy but the more perks i gave the more he wanted, Finally he told me he would not do jobs he did not want to do, Then he left without notice and "took what was owed him" , looking back i should have had a few guys so if this happened i would not have been stuck, But then he would not have had the hours, Lesson learned, He was not my family I do what jobs i get, Im never putting all my eggs in one basket again. from what you wrote i think your being played like i was, I too lent money that was forgotten about
This is going to be , this might make you feel better posts. <G>
I didnt mention it yesterday but Ive been bringing a little man along . Hes got three kids and his wife doesnt care about him or the kids acording to him. Hes stated that he would take all three kids alone . That sparked an instant repsect for him so I started trying to help him. I let him work when he could or when he wanted to becuase he was taking care of his kids . Strange deal to see a man in but its true .
Well he now doesnt call me when he doesnt show and I talked to him about that . I let him know I had to schedule work and whether he was there or not made a difference . I just needed to know . He bought a cheap cell phone where you buy minutes and gave me the number . Cool beans! He didnt show this morning and didnt call so I called him. Its no longer a working number . I was out this morning an hour before he was supposed to show up getting the work set up for him to do. Now the works sits with out him and Ive decided Ive had enough. Its not worth him not caring enough to call and it costing me money.
When he shows up Im going to be honest and very nice . This is the way I feel and I think IM being taking advantage of so Im ending it . Im gonna tell him hes a cool kid and I like him but its just not working . Since I do respect him taking care of his kids Ill call when I need somthing . My hopes is to let him either find somthing else or let him sit and think about it having a change of heart after riding the bench for a bit. Ill see.
I melted when I saw his kids and I was had by them to make matters worse. So yea , Ill probably help him on my terms .
Tim
There are some things you can't fix for other folks. Tough to realize, but that's just the way it is.
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
I didn't read the whole thread but thought i'd pass along this funny story.
I had a guy with a similar story working for me about seven years ago. He was young early twenties. Just married for about a year. Both of his parents were killed in a car accident and their two young (8-10ish) girls were now his and his young wife's responsibility.
He worked for me dependably for a few weeks and then tells me one morning that his wife couldn't take it anymore and left him and the kids. He starts missing more and more work until one day he just never shows. Strange thing was that his truck was still parked at my shop. He had a motorcycle he was riding at the time.
I got curious as to what happened to this guy and those little girls. So I went to his place looking for him. Bike was in the driveway but he was no where. The door was unlocked. For the life of me I don't know why but I went in. I was just so curious. Stuff was there but nobody around.
So now a few weeks later I get a call from his Father! I say what's going on here his Father is dead. The Dad is completely shocked and goes on to tell me his son is a pathological liar. Both of his parents are alive and well living about three hours away. There never were any little girls and the kid was never married. He was just a wack job off his meds!! He sure had me fooled.Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
dang man, that is one rough deal.But alas! we do like cowbirds and cuckoos, which lay their eggs in nests which other birds have built, and cheer no traveller with their chattering and unmusical notes. Shall we forever resign the pleasure of construction to the carpenter? What does architecture amount to in the experience of the mass of men?
-Thoreau's Walden
I say what's going on here his Father is dead.
I had a painter working for me once upon a time, I always suspected him of telling tales but then within one month his dad had died twice!
I confronted him and he did a lot of back peddling but it was hard for me to use him anymore, couldnt count on his word meaning anything, pathalogical!
Doug
we had a guy that his grandfather died three times in a year. three buriels. Now that same guy has one of the biggest heavy equpiment contruction company in town. He 29 years old. Lies about everything.
A good liar has to have a good memory! Niether of these guys posessed that attribute.
Doug
long story short. I got married really too young. When it fell apart I made a deal with myself-- no more lies! Period! Now I'm raising my son and daughter, and often tell them the most important word in the world. Integrity! Wish the politicians were raised like that!Its a horse thing!
You've been a good friend to this fellow. Now be an even better friend and tell him how you feel and suggest that he get some counseling. His "poor me, I'm always getting screwed" attitude will be a lifetime hurdle for him unless he straightens it out. Your Mother (and my Mother) were right; "Attitude is everything."
Take two hours with him NOT on the job site and tell him that he needs to shut up and just listen until you are finished. You should have some notes so that you don't repeat yourself and don't forget anything. He just listens. After you have had your say, he gets to ask you questions about what you just said. He cannot give you his opinon of what you said. The object for him is to come to a complete understanding of what YOU have said. In order to do that he gets to ask questions and at some point when he believes he does understand then he gets to paraphrase what you said by putting it in his own words. When he can do that, you are done. The rest is up to him.
In the 12 step world you have what is called a co-dependant relationship. You enable him to be the professional victim and he keeps taking. You both have your roles. He doesn't see it...you do.
You think he's going to change and get off the gravy train that he's been on? The only one that can change it is you my friend, and you are not going to do it by changing him because that will never happen.
You have to give him notice. Or at least give him a list of what you expect and tell him he's got two weeks to meet that. Do it as nicely as you can.
The second chance may be the way to go, because you know that he is capable of good work, and that's all you're asking. None of this "my code, my rules" BS.
There's been a time or two when the GC who was paying me hourly has nicely asked me not to jabber so much with the customer because he doesn't want to pay for that time. You know what? He was right, and I stopped it. No biggie, no hard feelings, and no professional victim sh!t. We're all big boys.
Nobody likes confrontation...well most people anyways. But you have to do it. If you're the boss, you have to take responsibility for your business and for the looming monster that you had a little hand in creating. In some ways it sucks being the nice guy.
Good luck.
i didn't mention because i didn't think it was an issue but you might have hit the nail on the head... he's in AA even was some kind of officer or something...
a few years ago i stopped have'n kids that weren't mine... (ie seems i was always "save'n" someone or support'n someone that wasn't mine) this guy slipped below the radar... i mean dang he's a master electrician... (behind on house notes and no truck should have been some type clue/red flag) .... LOL
guess he has yet to understand... don't $hit where you eat and don't bite the hand that feeds you...
i promise you in his mind... all he can see is "all that he's done for me" and that i'm an a-hole
p
and "Dont get your honey where you make your money".A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do...
No, You're not the A-hole, because now you really see it, and you're now talking truth. Just do the right thing. It's hard I know.Just remember, he's not your responsibility, and you're not going to heal him.
And of course...smile every time you hear around town how he's complaining about the way you mis-treated him and took advantage of his hard working nature...you were just out to make a buck off the poor working man....damn capitalist pig (of course nothing will ever be mentioned of all the help you gave him).Jay
Ponytl
Give me a call I have a good electrician who is independant and work is on the slow side for him right now.
ANDYSZ2(335 5300)WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
cool deal... i'll yell before lunch
thanks man...
p