Have any of you guys come up with a safe way to “encourage” an old work van to start in this -teen Alberta Clipper weather? Surely there is a way to get a 20 degree edge without burning the thing up. Surely you guys in Maine or Alaska or Upper Mich have the answer.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Few people understand it. Nobody agrees what it is, how to learn about it, or who's responsible for it. It has never been more important
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
100 watt light bulb in the engine compartment. Keep it away from carburetor
We used to have heaters that heated and circulated the radiator coolant when plugged into outlet.
Also heard of dipstick heaters
Also headbolt heaters and oilpan heaters.
Make sure the choke completely closes if it has a carburetor. My 300 straight 6 ford choke would stick just barely open, but enough to keep it from firing up on cold days. Also starting fluid can work, but it's a pain and dangerous. I had to hose it down with carb cleaner and work it a bit to loosen it up, and lube up the linkage with wd40. There only needs to be a tiny gap to make it hard starting, that was something I kept overlooking.
Edited 1/24/2003 8:20:02 PM ET by markh128
I have a 1988 Chevy van parked outside. To start it in cold weather (overnight lows in single digits), I turn the key. It's worked all this week.
:-)
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Edited 1/24/2003 8:34:35 PM ET by Rich Beckman
Edited 1/24/2003 8:35:54 PM ET by Rich Beckman
Oh, synthetic oil. Maybe you can find some off a guy that changes it every 3k or so.
(sorry Rich, don't ask me how that got replied to you)
Edited 1/24/2003 11:26:35 PM ET by Qtrmeg
My old GM diesel requires the following if it is under even 40F (4.4C)
Remove air cleaner, give shot (or 2 or 3) of ether into throat, then crank, almost always starts after 4 or 5 sec. down to whatever temp. Sometimes needs a second shot if a cylinder isn't firing right off and puffing white smoke.
A word of warning: Starting fluid (ether) should not be used to start diesel engines which have glow-plugs. You can blow holes in pistons doing this. I've heard some say it is ok to have someone spray in the ether after someone else has started cranking the engine, but I think it's safer to use something less potent like WD-40.
the only time starting fluids should be used at all is when U have a high compression engine that needs the extra help...or when trying to start something that's sat for a while.
Starting fluid isn't a daily option......having an engine in good tune is.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Help me learn something here, Ted. My electrician has a ford deisel Backhoe tractor. It has an ether injection system that injects through a line to start it.
Is it just on models with glow plugs that you don't want to do this?.
Excellence is its own reward!
True story.
Boss and wife are Making X-mas wreaths with pine bows.
Mike our part-time cleanup man (who is a couple french-fries short of a happy meal) decdes to burn the clippings in the burn barrel.
Clippins are still pretty fresh so they don't light so good.
Mikey decides to use starter fluid !!!!!!!!!
No one actually saw this happen but afterwards Mike stumbles into the shop and almost falls down.
Boss sends him home.
Another coworker who is Mikes neighbor comes by to get Mikes hat.
goes out to the burn barrel and finds an imprint of mike spread-eagle in the snow with a bow of matches by one "hand" and the ether can by the other, and pine needles for 20 feet in every direction!
Every time I think I've seen it all......
TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
LMAO
This thread is starting to turn over now. Just a little more ether and we'll have it burning along....
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
I have a friend who blew a piston on a John Deere dozer using ether to start it. He was the first person to warn me not to use ether to start my diesel farm tractor. Not wanting to post an urban myth (rural myth?), I did a search before making my previous post.
Here's a quote from Prestone's website. Note the "Tip".========================Prestone¯ Starting Fluid Prestone¯ Starting Fluid is a highly concentrated ether formula for gasoline and diesel engines. Designed to start stubborn engines fast in cold weather, it is able to work down to -65°F. TipPrestone Starting Fluid is not intended for diesel engines equipped with glow plugs. Refer to your vehicle's owners manual before using starting fluids on diesel engines. ========================
Here's a quote from Chevron's website:========================FeaturesChevron Starting Fluid is a special, volatile, cold-starting aid for internal combustion engines. Chevron Starting Fluid is intended for two-stroke and four-stroke gasoline engines. It also works in diesel engines without glow plugs.========================I saw only one explanation, and that was that apparently it's easy to get too much ether in the cylinder, and the glow plugs cause it to ignite violently enough to do the damage.
Makes sense to me. I knew a guy who insisted on starting his old ford pick up all the time with ether in winter instead of just getting a tune up. Since the compression was already poor, he got plenty of it in the oil and blew the pan off eventually..
Excellence is its own reward!
I've used starting fluid on numerous diesel tractors on the farm for many years and never had a problem, but then I was taught the proper way of doing this. Preferably, you would have the tractor heater plugged in long enough ahead of time so that you don't need to resort to the use of ether, but now and again in the course of a winter there's a few -20 days when you get stuck using it or waiting two hours for the heater to do its job. A few times I used it because the power ines were down and you couldn't run a block heater.
Since the switch to the glow plugs on a tractor is manually controlled, you just don't push the switch to send any current to those plugs if you know you're going to need to use ether and then you use the ether judiciously. I've seen guys blow pistons too after they dumped way too much ether in there due to impatience and cold or poor batteries that couldn't sling the engine fast enough.
If a two second spray of ether in the coldest of temps doesn't start that engine, no more should be added until the previous load has had time to evaporate......maybe five to ten minutes depending on the outdoor temp.
If the engine knocks at all when it starts, you just used too much ether. Judge accordingly next time to avoid disaster.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 1/25/2003 10:40:01 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
'blew the pan off eventually' -- love that Piffin quote. Good comments from Ted -- have never owned a glow plug vehicle, always nice to have his wisdom for future reference.
For clarification, the GM diesel I referenced way back in the thread is a 2 cylinder GM on an old JD 440IC dozer, does NOT have glow plugs. Have probably gone thru 30 cans of ether in 15 years running it an average of once a week.
Probably can overdo the ether though. I loaned (talk about stupid?) the dozer to a 30 YO kid of a friend who had died (I still owed the friend a LOT of favors when he died, talk about debts?) and when he brought it back one injector had literally had the tip blown off it. I assumed it was from wide open running for too long (somehow, he also sheared the tabs off the direction reverser clutch plates!!!).
Maybe he also really overloaded on ether on a warm day.
Duct tape and coat hanger not working?
I generally keep the sparks up to speed, but I hear if you turn on the lights for a bit before you crank the starter it warms the battery up a bit and eases the cold crank.
dip stick heaters are good.... i use to have an old mazda...worn out had to put 60wt (yes 60wt) oil in it just so it wouldn't smoke so bad you couldn't see behind you... i had to take an old electric space heater take out the tip switch ...lay it under the oil pan to warm the whole engine... she started everytime and was already warmed up
step one.....buy a Chevy 350.
step two......keep it in tune.
step three.....forget about it and just drive......
till the gas mileage drops and ya need another tune up in a year or so......then put off that needed tune up for about 6 months...or more....and just keep firing it up every single digit morning.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Gotta love the Chevies, eh Jeff?
Did you ever notice how the Fords all smell funny, if they start?
It isn't so bad, because if they start you don't find you are behind them much, ;-)
Fonzie,
Oil pan heater, also knew a guy who would put a moving blanket over the engine everynight and swore buy it, but I have doubts this really did anything
Or add a manual choke.
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Fonzie.......two batteries wired in series.
From my yrs living in northeastern Wyoming, some sort of engine heater was a must and dipstick heaters were worthless. Spent the first winter there without a heater and my truck wouldn't even crank over half the time. And it was a tuned 350 Chevy van. Real temps of -10 to -40 were common for a week or two at a time.
The very best answer is a garage, preferably heated.
View Image
maybe you could empty out one of your paslode fuel cells down the carbuerator,
Synthetic.
That stuff is great in the cold. Well below zero here last week and it just turns right over. I used to have lots of issues in the cold but the oil takes all the strain off of the battery. For 20 bucks more at an oilchange it is cheap insurance.
OF course no more than 3 year old battery, fresh sparks, and a full tank of gas always scares off the cranky engine demons.
One thought on the WD 40. it freezes surfaces together when really cold. The propellant must be some sort of material that causes it to bind up things. I recomended it to an old boss one winter for his chevette door locks. He had to carry a lighter in his pocket for the rest of that winter. (to heat the key, to heat the lock, to turn the tumblers) bad idea. There has to be some sort of carb lube after you use the gumout. ask at the parts store.
Thanks guys!
It's a '79 Ford and I can pretty much count on lack of compression for good turnover. I love the manual choke (Rez) and my machinist/mechanic toolmaker friend is installing a 1000watt tank heater today. Thursday was the only day I couldn't get started (took the car, had the tools on the job). Friday I used the heat gun on the distributor (don't know if that helped or not but it started).
Thanks for the counsel. I appreciate it.
Fonzie
Oh, it is a Ford? Just start a fire under it to warm it up. You won't have anymore problems with it.
I have to admitt something here.
Just to get it off my chest and all...
When I was in Colorado, I was driving Fords most of the time. ( You have to make the mistakes to be able to learn from them) it would get to fourty below pretty regular. We didn't ever bother with dipstick heaters, They do a pretty good job of warming up the dipstick so you don't frost your fingers if you decide to check the oil level in the cold early morning for some reason. Other than that, the only reason they sell them is for people who want to waste money on an ineffective shortcut to the real thing.
We installed line heateers in the water line from radiator to heater core. It circulated the fluid through the engine and the core and heated it so you window defrosted immediately and the cab warmed up faster. The engine turned over easily and away we go!
Well, most of the time. There was this one time with a 1976 F150 when it was about -33°F and when I came out of the house, I unplugged it. Just grabbing hold of the plug made the cold plastic/rubber insulation split into twenty some pieces and the sparks flew! Afte I got it unplugged from the other end first, I turned the key and she fired right up - thank God for synthetic oil - but the trany fluid was so stiff I couldn't get it into gear. I went back indoors to let it warm up. After ten minutes or so, I went back out and the engine heat had transfered to the tranny so I could put it into reverse. As soon as I eased off the clutch, I heard a POWEEE!! The side wall of the rear passenger tire had split open about three inches.
I took a hint and went back inside for about five hours and waited 'till it warmed up to ten below to try changing the tire. I knew Destiny had plans to keep me from getting to the job that day and I didn't want to check out all the other alternatives waiting on her list...
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Warm battery and lighter weight oil my friend. I have spent quite a few winters running rail road equipment up north. One of the first winters I ran a curve analyzer. It had a John Deer three cylander engine in it. As long as I took the battery to the motel every night she would fire right up in the morning. It used to suck packing that big bugger around all the time but it was the only way I could get started in the morning without starting fluid. When I moved on to big seven hundred horse cummins engines I would let it idle all night when it got below twenty. It's easier on the engine. And those batteries are too big to pack around every day.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned things that do work. Here in Winnipeg, most cars come with or soon are retrofitted with block heaters. Picture a little water heater element that fits into a corehole in the block. Many businesses which have employee parking lots provide an outlet at every parking stall just for block heaters. That's often a negotiated perk in labour contracts.
The mention of taking the battery indoors every night is very valid. Abattery loses a lot of efficiency when very cold (can't remember how much right now, but it's significent). It's amazing how well a warm battery will start even the coldest engine. You can even buy battery blankets, mini electric blankets to wrap around the battery. They aren't the most effective thing but sometimes there is room to wrap extra fiberglass batts around the battery to help keep it warm.
When I was a student at Mankato State (Minn.) a few years ago there were no plug-ins in the student parking lots so I got very good at slipping the battery out of my "61 Galaxy & taking it to my dorm room every night. Those connectors come off pretty easy once they've been freed up a couple times.
For stubborn starters, my best success was using propane blown into the air intake while cranking the engine. I suppose there may be reasons why it isn't safe, but I always got nice soft starts from a regulated hose & sometimes the engine had to run a minute or two on propane until it got warm enough for the gas to start running.
Still, for a really cold start, there's nothing quite like a nice tight FI engine that's well tuned, especially if the block heaters been plugged in a couple hours.
May all your starts be easy ones.
Paul
Speaking of plug ins I was in Brandon Manitoba one Feb. when it got well below fridgid. There was a curling tournament in town and the motel was packed. Everyone plugged up and didn't worry about it. Come checkout time nothing would start. It was a pretty bad scene with a parking lot full of cars and all the hoods up. Come to find out after much questioning by the angry mob, the owner of the motel had the plugs on a timer. They came on for something like an hour every three.
Bad language was used by all that day.
I was late to this thread and by the time I arrived, Fonzie told us a tank type block heater was being installed. Fact is, there's been a block heater hanging off every engine I've owned since 1971. Not only do they guarantee a start in the coldest of weather, but as you know, they save a lot of wear and tear on the starter. You'll save the cost of the heater, the install (if you don't do it yourself) and all the electricity you consume many times over. Hey…………."It's a good thing". :-)
Good point you make about LP starting. There was a fad around these parts about twenty years ago which had a lot of folks converting their PUs to propane operation. The local propane company was paying for the conversion so long as you contracted more than 1000 gallons of propane a year and that wasn't too difficult for all these guys around here running corn dryers. Trucks engines that were so worn (200,00 miles) they'd hardly run on gas anymore purred down the road like new when running on LP and never failed to start in the coldest extremes of winter. These trucks were then used to jump start the vehicles that didn't want to go.
These conversions are running up and down the road around here today. The conversion includes a switch on the dash that allows you to flip back and forth between LP or gasoline and this can be done on the fly at highway speeds. The LP tanks specifically sized for this application are hung under the truck beside the gas tanks.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Just haven't had that problem here in Phoenix, even though it did get down to 58 last night. Brrrrr