Hello to All
Been here before in all kinds of woodworking issues, but this is a bit off the beam. Been in the business of remodeling old homes almost all of my working life. But the past few weeks I have been benched. Has anyone out there come in contact with a an illness that seems to come from working with old homes? Symptoms include serious shortness of breath, an all over body weakness and the need to sleep all the time or you just seem to fall over. We are not talking Histoplasmosis, (from bats) or asbestos poisoning. Was not using any chemicals or solvents or any product above the norm. Have heard about a spore found in old lumber but not too much on that. I know this is not a normal post for this site, but I know a lot of us out there are involved in this type of work. Thanks for your help. Paul W.
Replies
I'd get to a doctor now. This could be serious and not related to working on old houses. Could even be a light heart attack.
dec- run dont walk to the M.D. and he'll probably prescribe anti-biotic and a chest x-ray, demand an x-ray, and blood work , which will entail bacterial/ virial screening. i was layed up last winter with infection from all things rat/ raccon feces very very dangerous i had what you described and i thought i'd bull-dog it out. it got worse, i almost passed out in the supermarket and a women coming off her shift at the hospital(nurse). saw i was barely hanging on took one look at me and called the ambulance and off i went. completely embarrassed, the doctors told me it took a while to set in and take just as long to get rid of. but i completely recovered. so DEC go to hospital/ doctors, let us know how you fare. and my best to you mate. cheers the bear
bear- what was with the rat/raccoon feces? was it a dry dust that you breathed in or what? I work on old houses all the time and this post has got me sitting straight.
rez- with the urine/crap and air born dust with demo and all that gets riled up. and we are the host for the residual bacteria and its effects. we are in the basements and worse than that is attics . when demo and hauling of these old houses waste WEAR A MASK, in my instance was a 113 yr old barn and that was varmint condo, and it started with a ear ache. and off it went . just be aware and stay well cheers the bear
thanks bear. yep, I think I'm gonna double up on caution.
Rez - I think you are referring to HISTOPLASMOSIS, that is found in rat/bat droppings - very dangerous with no known cure! My current renovations have me wowrking for a former Director of Fish and Game in my state. During the renovation of his three-hundred year-old farm, we discovered that his "residence" was also home to three separate colonies of bats numbering as many as four hundred in each colony. One of the rooms had knee-deep bat guano and wood work soaked with urine. Thankfully, my client knew about HISTOPLASMOSIS and the precautions needed for handling our situation, however, unfortunately the rest of us in the trades are not so well informed. I have been tested for "histo" and do not have it. There is a CDC web-site where you can get more information. It is http://www.cdd.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00038994.htm. Good luck and thanks for your concern. I will post any new info as I get. Paul W.
I was stumbling through here and came upon this discussion. I'm scared. I knew it was bad to breathe the molds and the insulation but what is this?
I've heard of Hunta Virus, but Histoplasmosis? I'm in old houses with rodent poop all through the blow in cellulose/rock wool/you name it all the time. Old public housing with nasty dropped ceilings and chases that have inches of rodent poop all over their asbestos lined pipes. Doing demo to make way for everybody else...like the asbestos mitigators. I'm big on HEPA filters and have developed a technique for handling contaminated air and material, and training the guys, but there are always holes. And guys who don't care. And there is always residual dust that does not get cleaned up. Is there a substance that I can apply to the workspace to kill the microbes / dormant virus/ active virus?Something that I can spray with a garden sprayer and a moon suit?
There are a whole host of products that will kill the virus and molds but the problem becomes its a losing battle. Simple bleach in a 10% solution will do the job but it will only work on the surfaces it touches. As soon as you move material again you have a whole layer of untouched matter. It would be a full time job just spraying everything. You would have to saturate the entire work site. Not a practical solution. Respirators and protective clothing are your best bets. Just plain dust is difficult enough to control at a work site. How much time, water and effort is spent now at work sites and it does not control the dust 100%.
These symptoms could also be indicative of pericarditis. It is an inflamation of the sac surronding the heart. I think it is bacterial and treatable with antibiotics. It causes fluid to build up and put pressure on the heart so it works harder and does less. I've had three friends in their fifties who had it and one who was under thirty. It can lead to pneumonia and worse.
See the MD
Piffin - thanks for your posting, I appreciate any input. It's a good thought! I do have a heart condition, my current physician didn't seemed concerned, however, I am going to make an appointment to see my cardiologist asap. Paul W.
we Pauls have to stick together.Excellence is its own reward!
So, Paul, did you end up being OK?Andy Engel, Forum moderator
a little off the topic, but related, I think:
ever been bitten by a bug that really bowled you over?
I remember talking with a guy a few years ago who got into some spiders in a crawl space (SE Michigan) and was laid up for two weeks from the bites. That was the first time I'd ever heard that some kind of spider in this region could cause any worse than a mosquito bite kind of thing.
Well, two weeks ago while mowing the lawn I got bitten by something on the leg, maybe a spider I don't know because I did not see it when it happened. The first day or two I thought I was comming down with a cold (tired and achey) and then the inside of that leg got very sensitive. It has only just started to feel better (two weeks later).
My nurse confirmed that there was no redness or swelling, and no ring around the bite (Lyme disease). In fact the skin looked just fine the whole time, it just got super sensitive near the groin (I guess we've got some lymph nodes there and toxins can collect there) and the hip joint was sore/stiff, even though the bite was way down near the knee.
She said, "this happens sometimes" and just to watch it and come in if it does not get better in a few weeks.
Wow. Those little spyders sure can leave something in ya. After limping around I have new found respect for them (or whatever it was, I guess). Even now, the little red welt is still visible, though fading finally.
I won't complain about mosquitos any more, after this.
This whole topic (including the dust related illnessnes talked about above) should make us all realize a little more how amazing life and health really are. There is so much out there that can hurt us and make us sick, and yet MOST of the time we are fine.
Life is really something.
Hi Andy,
Thanks for your concern. I guess I'm getting better? I was working 70 hour work weeks (down to 0 hour work weeks for nearly two months) and now working a 32 hour work week. Actually that sounds a little more sane than the 70 hour weeks! Have seen a couple of specialists, have ruled out many bacterial/viral and neurological concerns.
Still have to check on lead poisoning...something my ex-wife suggested (she is a builder/developer and met someone at a conference who has many of the same symptoms I have). I have also recently crossed paths with a telecommunications tradesman that has the same symptoms - he's being treated for BUBONIC PLAGUE - YIKES!!! Fifteen or sixteen cases on-going, but don't know if that in the immediate area or nationwide.
Here's the thing....am getting all of this feedback from individuals in the trades from near and far. It would seem to me that the medical profession may be entirely out of the loop when it comes to diagnosing and treating us for issues that seem be trades related. This Forum appears to be the only arena for ferreting out this kind of information. From some of the responses received, it appears to me that not just a few trades people are not aware of the stuff that's out there that'll getcha.
Thanks for keeping this session alive and also for you concern. Paul W.
We're working on an article on lead poisoning. I'd be happy to put you in touch with the author if you'd like some info sources. Just e-mail me.
Andy Engel, Forum moderator
Could you put in a sidebar on arsenic poisoning with that article? I searched WebMD last night for info on that, and came up with not much information. All I found was that it is a heavy metal poison similar to lead, and that it builds up in the hair and nails, and it's an irritant to the mucus membranes. And arsenic is a main component in a lot of cancer medicine. I already knew my sinuses and throat are bothered when I work with pressure treated lumber, but I wanted to know if I could blame if for the overwhelming fatigue that set in yesterday.
I suppose I can best blame the stuff for making my muscles feel tired just because pressure treated lumber is so heavy because it's soaking wet, not withstanding that the wetness is poisonous.
Either way I'm just waiting it out and not seeking treatment, after reading about the chelating agent they use to pump your stomach if you eat lead or drink arsenic. That's the chemical that bonds to the poisonous metal ions and makes a new compound that is less harmful and that the body can flush out normally. Apparently the stuff has a strong skunklike odor. In fact the bad smell is SO bad, WebMD had a link for handling procedures to avoid accidentally breaking the container. It makes a little fatigue not seem so bad.
B
Paul - I strongly suggest that when your doctor does your blood workup that you also do a blood lead level test. Click here for more information - and good luck!
T. Jeffery Clarke
Quidvis Recte Factum Quamvis Humile Praeclarum
Edited 5/22/2002 3:21:22 PM ET by Jeff Clarke
Somehow I'd gotten into a spider nest and had a slew of spider bites on my chest from these tiny little spiders. Something like the next day I'm on a rooftop removing an old brick chimney when suddenly I start losing my sharp mental clarity. Started having a hard time focusing my thoughts. Then got worse. Alarmed I hurried up and finished the job to get off the roof. Hard time driving home, like hard to realize where I was at in my home town area. Made it back and hit the bed. Woke up back to normal. A new compassion birthed for those who have mental illness. Plus an increased caution on what I'm getting into on some of these jobs.
Paul,
My exposure to older homes is similar to your own. I am unfamiliar with any specific illness as you mentioned but I have developed some serious allergies that I had never been plagued with in the past. They just started up a few years back and are pure hell when they hit. Except for the "need" to sleep, symptoms are exactly as you described. My current physician and I are attempting to pinpoint precisely, what brings them on. Knock wood, thus far the spring pollen doesn`t seem to be igniting anything.
Are there specific times of year when you are hit?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I too have been working on old homes, and also love in one. My question is, how much pressure treated lumber have you been working with? Like everyone else run don't walk to your MD. If you have been working with a lot of PT you could, and I repeat could have on elevated arsenic level. Happen to my oldest son.
I still want to know if the original guy is OK. This whole discussion is interesting and frightening, too. I can really relate. A few weeks ago I started working on a pressure treated project. On the second day, I went to the store and got a load of wet 12 foot PT 2x4s cut in half so they would fit in my station wagon, carried home that sawdusty stuff and unloaded it, then got back in that tainted car and went out to see Spider-Man. I throw that in just because I think it's ironic given the spider bite thread. The next day, I was too sick to work on my project anymore. I got worse and worse for a week until I finally went to the doctor. He made me take Cipro for 10 days. I'm not saying PT made me get a sinus infection, I'm just saying it probably irritated my sinuses enough to make me susceptible to the massive quantity of ordinary people germs I was exposed to in a sold out movie theater.
We all gotta be really careful. I'm still working on this flight of stairs off the deck, and I'm washing my clothes separately every night, wearing gloves and safety glasses, and washing my hands before eating and "toileting," which is the word they use on the little tag stapled to every board. Don't you macho men think you can get away with not doing this. My husband is one of you. He likes to carry pressure treated stuff on his shoulder, right next to his face. It makes me cringe.
It also bothers me to see the people at Home Depot handling the stuff at the checkout and loading area without gloves and without washing their hands after. And they're handling it dripping wet with the poison, too. They should have some kind of wet-naps at the checkout or something so they can be safe.
Everybody take care,
B
B - Thanks for asking. I am doing better...not great. Posted a "medical update" (msg 22). You do have to be extremely careful with the P.T. that's being marketed these days. Many times the dripping from P.T. isn't dew or condensation... I have had my shoulders stained brown AND green over the years.
Don't work with a lot of P.T., but lead and arsenic are both issues that are still to be tested.
Out here in Idaho, some mice have a disease that you can catch just from breathing the air where they have been. Crawl spaces, attics, etc. It can prove to be fatal, so, like all the others, I recommend immediate medical attention.bob
It's called the Hunta Virus and it is NOT limited to Idaho. It is caught from breathing contaminated mice feces
Edited 5/23/2002 11:28:53 AM ET by Mugsy
What does your chest X-ray show?
no turn left unstoned