Replies

1. 
   ripmeister | Jul 20, 2004 08:51pm | #1

   I say keep the old.  As long as they are in good structural shape I agree with the inspector that with good storms little is gained with new windows.  I have leaded glass windows circa 1920 in my house which I have painstakingly removed, stripped and  essentially restored.  I kept the pully and  weight system.  It was a lot of work but in my opinion well worth it.  I think one misconception propagated by the window replacement industry is how much better the new ones will be with all the fancy films, gases, 2x and 3x panes etc.  The problem with most windows however is air infiltration etc which has more to do with the perimeter of the window than the window itself.  In my opinion with good storms your old windows once refurbished would only perform marginally less well  than new.  My windows are hard as rock straight grained material which doesn't even exist today unless you go to an old growth forest.  If as you say money is no object pay someone to refurbish the old and get them in good working order.  I do agree with you that the one downside with the storms is that they do detract from the appearance of things from the exterior, however there are some manufacturers out there that are producing low visual impact storm windows for historical applications.  Can't recall who they are but if you are interested I can post that later.

1. 
   KLawler | Jul 20, 2004 09:09pm | #2

   I am interested in the storms you mentioned. I have done some searches here on breaktime and have found alot of corroborating info to your response and the opinions of my inspector. Any links would be appreciated.

1. 
   ripmeister | Jul 21, 2004 05:41pm | #9

   Bob Walkers idea about setting  up a station is  a great one.  Thats what I did for the windows I've been restoring that I mentioned in my earlier post.  One aspect of that is that I scrounged a large sheet metal pan from  a scrap yard which was big  enough to hold one sash.  I then partially filled it with Strip-eze to act as a dipping station.  Of course this was all done in my detached garage with plenty of ventilation.  One of the nice things about already having the storms is that you can remove the sash for a period of time and still have window protection provided by the storms.

2. 
   csnow | Jul 20, 2004 09:27pm | #3

   The old ones have lasted 200 years.  Do you think the new ones will last 25?

   They would devalue a historic home.  I understand the reasons in favor of replacement, but save them if you can.

   Consider routing in weatherstripping from:

   http://www.conservationtechnology.com/

   For better looking storms, see:

   http://www.alliedwindow.com/index.html

   or interior storms

   http://www.stormwindows.com/why.htm

   And here's a great book on restoring old windows:

   http://tinyurl.com/63po6

    

3. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 21, 2004 02:10am | #4

   Ken,

   I have replaced alot of windows with dual pane divided lite with wood jambs. Unless you are eventually going to restore the house and sell it as so, go ahead be comfortable. Metal framed storm windows, will keep out the drafts (sometimes) but they transfer the outside temperature right to and through your single glazed windows. Besides metal storm windows are only of significance if your house was built with them, which we know it wasn't. Many of my customers who replace there windows also get an energy audit and insulate the walls.

   Good luck,

   MES 

4. 
   rjw | Jul 21, 2004 04:33am | #5

   I'm with Ken and CS - try to keep the originals, ditch the aluminum, weatherstrip and use interior storms or "hang 'em in the fall and replace with screens in the spring" real wood framed storms and screens.

   Keep in mind though that old wood sash windows can be a source of lead contamination - some experts say the leading source of lead contamination through dust generated by raising and lowering the windows.

   Some of those experts in turn say that if you keep your windows dusted you should be in good shape.

   Consider setting up a mini-window restoration workstation: figure out how they're put together, take one or two apart at a time, strip the old paint, glazing compound etc and put them back together. t

   The first few will take some time as you learn the process, but you can get pretty quick at it pretty quickly.

   If you can friction sash liners to line the sides and hold the sash in position, consider filling the weight cavities with cellulose blown in tight (not foam or anything else irreversible)

   Track down back copies of Old House Journal; they've covered the options and processes countless time.

   ---

   "It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."

   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

5. 
   JeffBuck | Jul 21, 2004 09:09am | #6

   1) ... it's your house ... do what ya want and be comfy ...

   2) ... I say the inspector talked outta turn .. but is right.

   3) ... what's the figure ... 20 ... 30% of all leaks come from windows and doors ...

   that means 70 to 80% of your time and money should be spent elsewhere.

   me ... I'd go for some period correct storms ...

   and seal up the rest of the house.

   new windows are over rated ... unless it's a new house.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   rjw | Jul 21, 2004 01:27pm | #8

   Jeff,

   >> I say the inspector talked outta turn .

   Part of what we do is advise our clients as to how to maintain and operate a house and to enable our clients to make decisions like what to do about things like old windows.

   I know that my clients buying older houses will get a lot of calls from replacement window contractors after the transfer gets publshed, so I try to give them objective advice about the state of the windows and the things to consider about those sales pitches.

   I will tell them that ethetic _decisions_ is not within the scope of a home inspection, but they should realize that treatment of windows has a significant effect on how a house looks.

   I usually do that in the LR and point out the neighboring houses with aqnd without replacement windows to demonstrate how obvious it is when you look for it.

   "It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."

   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

1. 
   JeffBuck | Jul 22, 2004 03:02am | #13

   makes sense in that context.

   giving options ...

   possibly keeping the sharks at bay .....

   JeffBuck Construction, llc   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   JohnSprung | Jul 21, 2004 09:48pm | #10

   >... I say the inspector talked outta turn .. but is right.

   I think it's completely appropriate for a home inspector to advise clients on what effect a proposed alteration would have on the value of the house.  If the amount of proposed damage is large, I think it's his duty to say "If you do X, you'll be paying out money to reduce the value of your house."

   -- J.S.

1. 
   KLawler | Jul 21, 2004 10:38pm | #11

   I have used this inspector several times. The real estate agents around here are terrified of him because he is so thorough and kills so many deals. He saved my but on one property. I have only heard the positives about replacement windows so when he gave me that advice I wanted to verify it. Sounds like he is correct as usual.

   The previous home owner "restored" all of the windows. You can see his fingure prints (depressions really) all over the glazing. It really looks crappy but I can live with it. I think I will concentrate on the metal storms and replace them with something more appropriate.

   Where can I find a company that will conduct an energy audit and then weatherstrip and insulate the house for me? Is there a list of "certified" insulation specialists or do I take my chances with the yellow pages?

   Thanks again for the thoughtful responses - this is what the internet is best at I think!

6. 
   Taylor | Jul 21, 2004 11:28am | #7

   Go with wood storm windows:

   http://www.oldfashionedwindows.com

   I am 100% with your inspector. In terms of energy efficiency, replacing your windows is not cost-effective. Weatherstripping and storms are much more cost-effective ways of saving energy. Even very high end modern windows are only guaranteed for 20 years, the spacer is the Achilles heel of any modern window. Spend thousands of $$$ now to replace your windows, you'll be replacing them again in a couple of decades. And the value of your home will have plummeted in the meantime, especially if you replace wood with plastic.

   The reason everyone tore out their old windows is not energy efficiency, it's because vinyls were sold on the basis of tilt-out for cleaning. So you have window cleaners come twice a year, once to take off screens, once to put on, and there's a cleaning in there. And in the meantime you have a treasure.

   http://www.windowrepair.com

7. 
   TommH | Jul 21, 2004 10:40pm | #12

   Check out http://www.daviswoodworkingdesigns.com. They make old fashioned wooden storms from mahogeny, but with a new twist: the bottom glass panel is removable from the inside and is replaced with a screen panel for the summer. No more climbing up and down a ladder with heavy storms/screens twice a year.