Hi everyone,
Hope someone can help… I’m thinking of buying an old colonial house which needs a new roof. Water has seeped through the roof for many years and the attic feels damp and moist when I go in. I can’t really tell how bad the damage is as I can’t see through the dry wall? and look at the wooden beams? Is it too risky for me to go ahead with the purchase? (I really don’t know what my worst case scenario is cost wise apart from the cost of replacing the roof). I will have an inspection done beforehand before the contract of course but was just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience they could share or if someone could tell me DANGER? RUN FAR FAR AWAY?? Thanks.
ps. I just found this site and this is my first post. I’m a first time homebuyer who doesn’t want to go broke fixing this house! THanks for your patience.
Replies
Hi, kyk2001, welcome to BT.
I need to ask you a couple of questions before offering any opinion.
Is this a real colonial--which is to say, on the order of 200-some years old--or a suburban tract house in that style? What is the actual age of the house?
Is the house currently occupied or abandoned?
Is the asking price substantially lower than that for the surrounding real estate?
Most roofs that leak cause collateral damage proportional to the length of time they have been leaking. Over the course of many years, water can even run down into the walls and rot top plates, studs, and even sole plates if there's enough of it. If this is suspected, you will have to demo the wall covering anywhere there is a hint of water damage.
To determine how much damage there is to the roof structure itself as a result of leaking, generally you have to see the roof deck and rafters. If the attic is finished or insulated so that the underside of the roof deck is not visible, you will need to either (a) strip back a few shingles in the worst areas, and/or (b) demo some of the gyprock or whatever ceiling material prevents you from seeing the underside.
This is called invasive inspection. Obviously, you will have to get the current owner's agreement to do this in advance. He will only agree if he thinks you are serious about buying, and just want to verify how much damage you're in to repair for settling the price.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Dinosaur,
Thanks for the info. I'm glad I found this site. Everyone sounds so knowledgeble.
The house was built around 1953..so I guess its not a true colonial, just a suburban colonial style.
The house is occupied but the owner has allowed the house to deteriorate badly. I'm not sure whats his situation..perhaps he has no money. Anyway, the house will be sold "as is". It is in NJ, so the contract closing is subject to a satisfactory inspection (unlike in NY where inspection must be done before hand i believe?) I guess I will have to rely on the inspection report should I win the bidding. (winner's curse??!)
The listing price is substantially lower than comparables but again I worry about the extent of damage I cannot quantify. I can estimate the stuff that needs work to be done that is visible and the house needs new windows, doors, roof, floors, bathrooms, kitchen, paint both inside and outside. I've estimated that when fixed up would go for around $175K over listing price. A lot of the issues look to be cosmetic to me. However, my agent thinks the final price will more likely give me a $125K cushion only.
Looking at the ceilings of the bedrooms below the attic, one looks fine while the other looks like there has been water leakage (the paint on the celing looks like it has water in it).
I guess I'm in over my head on this one as a first time buyer...but then again, its a really nice property in a great neighbourhood.
You are making the classic first-time home-buyer's mistake in planning lots of cosmetic work when you are facing what may be serious structural issues.
Additionally, if you think the place will flip for $175k over the asking price, that indicates you believe you are capable of putting $175k of value into it somehow. You agent disagrees with you by a factor of almost 30%. This is important, because normally an agent will do or say anything to encourage you to buy--that's how he makes his money, after all. So I would listen to the little alarm bells all around you before signing anything.
A 1953 colonial-style suburban tract house was probably fairly well built. It is most likely salvageable, but you will have to determine how much structural work you'll need to do once you open up those walls and roof and ceilings. Rule of thumb in this sort of thing is to double your first estimate. In your case, I'd recommend you triple it, until you obtain hard information to the contrary.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Dinosaur,
THanks for the dose of reality. I plan to walk away should there be an structural problems. I guess that's your message to me too.
I think there's been a misunderstanding..my agent thinks the house will sell for $50K over listing price hence the $125K gain. The $175K was assuming the house sold at its listing price. I guess my agent thinks that there is no structural problems. (i'm not planning to rely on her opinion anyway.)
My last question is how reliable is an inspection report in detecting the possible structural damage you mentioned? Would they be able to sniff something like that out?
Once again, thanks for your help. Much appreciated.
My last question is how reliable is an inspection report in detecting the possible structural damage you mentioned? Would they be able to sniff something like that out?
Sniff? No. There will have to be invasive inspection if any hard info is to be garnered.
Do not walk away just because there are structural problems. There are always some structural problems in a house that's selling way below median. Walk away if your resources will not allow you to do the job right. Unless you are planning to do all the work yourself, and you consider yourself incompetent to handle structural repairs, it makes no difference if you spend your money on 2x4s or on maple strip flooring. The important question is whether or not your total budget can handle the total cost of putting the house in the condition in which you wish to put it.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Thanks Dino, you've been a great help.
A point to consider on water intrusion into structural members left unchecked for a goodly length of time with a 1953 framing: repairs might involve total replacement making it necessary to open roofs and walls.
In this case replacement wasn't absolutely necessary because of the bulk of material initially involved in the original construction.
Working in 2x's you'll have little room to compromise with rot.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
razzman,
thanks for the pic. That would be my worst fear..complete replacement of structural members. I'm going to check the house again thoroughly this time and even take some pics. Even if I don't bid on the house, I'm going to learn a lot more about fixing houses.
Thanks guys. This is a great forum!