60+ year old house Los Angeles are house with galvanized water lines. All drain lines are what I would describe as 1-1/2″ threaded galvanized which thread into cast iron stacks. A garbage disposal repair required removal of unit. That little amount of jostling made the metal trap fall off revealing completely rusted away threads. The pipe is unusable. All the other parts connecting the sink are also corroded and the pipe cuts that somebody did are all a hack job — will all need to be replaced.. This all under sink — with extremely tight quarters.
In an effort to remove the bad threaded pipe that goes to the stack, I bashed out a small amount of the wall to try to get enough leverage with a pipe wrench to loosen from stack. This did not work to to a combination a 60 years of corrosion, the lack of leverage, and the lack of clearance for the wrench due to cold water pipes in the way.
Considered sawzalling or hand sawing and putting one of those rubber/hose clamp/connectors, but in order the cut the 1-1/2 pipe the best I would be able to do would be a 45degree angle — and that seems problematic.
Suggestion on technique, tools, etc for removing this corroded part?
Edited 1/17/2005 7:43 pm ET by mike_klinger
Replies
Can you remove the sink to work? Cut the pipe and use a fernco coupling (the rubber/ hose clamp thing). Patch the hole in the wall with quick timed durabond. Reinstall sink etc.
You could try some penetrating spray-ZEP or wd 40 for a while, then apply heat and use a cheater on that pipe wrench, but if something breaks beyond where you're working.......you could be screwed.
Best of luck.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Sink cannot come out easily as it is porcelain style , set in a tiled countertop. Don't really see any advantage to removing anyway -- from the point of view of leverage. What is a cheater?Edited 1/17/2005 7:42 pm ET by mike_klinger
Edited 1/17/2005 7:47 pm ET by mike_klinger
I'm sorry. A cheater is a pc. of pipe slightly bigger O.D. than the pipe wrench handle. You slip the cheater over the pipe wrench handle and increase your wrenchability seven fold.
No sink means lean over opening to get the leverage and angle easy. I hear you on the need to not remove the sink.
I think under these circumstances I might try to remove drains and even cap supplies lower in the cabinet to gain the room and the angle to either break loose the fitting or to cut the pipe.
Best of luck.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
So, could you clarify if the stack and drain are cast iron and it is only the 1-1/2" galvanized nipple that services the sink trap that has corroded, failed and broken off in the cast iron waste tee.
You have a pipe wrench on the corroded 1-1/2" galv. nipple.....but it will not even budge a little out of the CI tee?........
Do I read your post correctly?.......................Iron Helix
Yes the corroded nipple is the galvanized extension away from the stack . It was the side attached to the trap and on the kitchen side of the plaster that had rusted through its threads. The issue is matter of getting enough leverage to turn the pipe with a wrench and crack the seal to the Iron stack . The corroded pipe I am speaking is horizontal. One inch to the the left of the pipe is a vertical stud, which is part of the cabinetry framing, which is set kitty-corner in the kitchen-- so the wrench can't go that way. To the right are two vertical water pipes that further restrict the wrench in that direction. In order to get the wrench far enough into the wall on the right side I'd have to bash a larger hole in the wall and even that idea is limited by cabinetry frame which obstructs that side. And then I'd still have a leverage disadvantage, once the wrench is in the right place. The only other creative way in -- I suppose -- would be to bash a hold in the exterior stucco and attack it from that side?Hoping for creative idea here to avoid that.
Any chance of a photo? <!----><!---->
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Back in the day... (that's such a fun phrase) I worked a summer as a machinist at a salmon cannery in the middle of Nowhere Alaska. One of the old-timers taught me this little trick.<!---->
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Big if… If you have room, take two hammers of equal weight and rap sharply on opposites sides of the fitting, repeat around the fitting. This seems to break up the bond of the rust – oh, and as above, use a penetrating oil as well.<!---->
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Or… there are wrenches that fit, and bite inside the nipple, that offset might give you room the swing the wrench.<!---->
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Or… phonebook & checkbook. <!---->
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Phat
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
thanks for the info everyone
Is the interior of the galv. pipe corroded shut?
If you keep the galv pipe stub is it usable as a drain or is it full of corrosion pits & holes?
If it might function for a few more years then clean out as much of the crud as you can.
With a 4" angle grinder cut off the corroded exposed end of the galv. pipe.
Purchase a fernco adpater to fit the 1-1/2" stub, and purchase a 1-1/2" pvc slipjoint adapter (male solvent weld end) and the needed tubular sink drain and trap.
Assemble tighten the fernco to the galv pipe, then insert the male slip joint adapter into the fernco and tighten. Assemble the tubular sink drain and trap. Insert the P-trap tail into the slip joint adapter.
Run water check for leaks.!
Alternate fix....not a proper (up to code) fix! But often found in older homes.
Cap the galv pipe with a fernco rubber cap.
Purchase a sink S-trap and tubular part to the sink connections. Assemle the sink parts...attach the S-trap and mark the position where it hits the floor. Check that there is not a joist in the way and drill a hole through to the basement/crawl space.
Tap into the existing cast iron waste pipe drop using a bimetal hole saw or by boring lots of holes in a circle and grinding out the opening, apply a pvc saddle with gasket to the cast iron pipe and plumb pvc up throughthe floor to the bottom of the cabinet.
Apply a female slip joint adapter to the top of the 1-1/2 or 2" pvc pipe and insert the cut to length tubular S-trap. Check for leaks.
...................Iron Helix
Phone book and credit card.
At 60 years that galv piping is way past it's usable lifetime. I'd remove as much of it as you can get to, and replace with ABS plastic. If you haven't piped much, it might be good to get a plumber... drains in tight quarters are not necessarily the right place to learn.
What do you mean? It's a great place to learn - all the things you shoulda done & will do next time.
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
Can you with your sawzall cut the corroded pipe almost flush to the cast iron and then make a few slices from inside the corroded pipe out to the cast iron carefully so as not to damage cast iron threads (cast iron usually cuts alot harder than galvanized) ? Once you've made a couple of interior slices use a cold chisel to work the corroded pipe off the cast iron. Then either collapse the corroded pipe or turn it with a wrench.
Put back a male inch and a half trap adapter and work back with all plastic extensions and traps.
This is exactly the way to go and if not with a sawzall, possibly a dremel although the cut wouldn't be straight. I have done this many times on pipes and frozen bearing races etc. If possible make the cuts on the top side of the pipe so if the threads are damaged the leak area will be out of the constant water flow but if you put enough pipe dope on the threads when putting in the new pvc fitting, it will not leak.
Got back to this problem over the weekend. With a fresh perspective and armed with some advice here, it actually went quite smoothly. I had sawzall standing-by, but I succeeded without it by bashing an additional inch or so or wall in - creating a slightly bigger access hole. Then I sprayed threads with wd40. I still did not have proper leverage with pipe wrench, but I did manage to get the pipe loose with channel locks. Then I replaced nipple with a replacement piece of galvanized and replaced all pipes on the sink side of the trap with plastic fittings, without removing phone book from shelf or removing credit card from wallet. So I'm happy.
Edited 1/25/2005 4:35 pm ET by mike_klinger
Thinking more about the Sawzall... If you use a very long blade, after you start a cut, you can flex it to cut at an angle. Cutting 'round the corner - so to speak.
The use of an angle grinder was suggested too, if its too tight for that, you might find smaller cut-off disks that would fit a die-grinder.
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
If this is your house and you plan to keep it more than a couple years, consider biting the bullet and going for a complete re-pipe job. Expensive, but in the long run, cheaper than the piecemeal fixes that'll all get junked when you finally do the whole job.
If you don't already have the sawzall, consider the PC Tiger Claw recip that twists and bends. It's ideal for tight quarters like this.
-- J.S.
So, what's the outcome?
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
I like a lot of these suggestions. I'll be putting them to use over upcoming weekend.