House built 1940, has 6 over 6 true divided lite, double hung wood sash, basically in excellent operating condition, no rot in frame or sash, but in serious need of routine maintenance, clean-up, paint and re-glazing/repair. Here’s my dilemma. These sash units are identical in every way with a traditional sash cord/weighted balance system, except the counter-balance system used with these units consists of a long spring on each side of the sash, located immediately behind the interior stop, riding in a concave channel routed into both the frame and sash, one end attached to the sash, the other end attached to the top of the channel the sash runs in. In addition, there is an aluminium U-shaped channel immediately next to the spring and before the parting bead, which has a small metal “key” holding the sash in place which rides in the U-shaped channel and seems to also act as a friction device to hold the sash open at any given level. The problem is that even after removing the interior stop, and releasing the spring, there seems to be no way of releasing the sash from the channel because of these “keys” which are still holding the sash in place. Each sash has 4 “keys”, 2 at the top, and 2 at the bottom. I’ve tried to carefully remove them with needle-nosed pliers, but they won’t budge and are fragile, easily deformed when I try to remove them. Has anyone any experience with this type and design counter-balance system or knows how to free the sash itself for maintenance/paint/repair without destroying these “keys”? I’ve had 3 different professional glazers out to the house here and no one can figure it out. Thanks! for any info/advice anyone can offer.
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Can you manage to get any pictures of the mechanism posted?
Thanks for the response. I can take a digital picture tomorrow in the daylight. Too dark now. By the way, I found out the mfg. name: Curtis Woodworking and the window unit is called "Curtis Silentite". Curtis Mfg. went out of business in 1966, after a flood, and never rebuilt. Apparently this co. was a big mfg. back in the 30's depression era. I'll get the pics up tomorrow, Again, thanks!
Your description sounds a lot like some windows that I worked on a couple of years ago. They were a true pain in the pitoobies.
As I recall, I wedged a glaziers scraper between the wood frame and the spring/tube/aluminum. I pried it loose from the wood, and removed the sash together with the mechanism.
Once each was out of the frame, I could do whatever was needed on the sashes -- and of course the mechanisms fell to pieces. I remember working a long time one each of the first few. Gained some experience so the later ones were a bit less tedious.
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Thanks for posting. You write that the balance mechanisim "fell to pieces". Were you able to use them or were they trash at that point, and if trash, what were you able to replace them with? Thanks!
Thanks for posting. You write that the balance mechanisim "fell to pieces". Were you able to use them or were they trash at that point, and if trash, what were you able to replace them with? Thanks!
I didn't have much choice but to put them back together. Even if my quote could cover the added cost of upgrades (it couldn't), the value of the house couldn't. In a couple of the windows I probably spent the better part of an hour just straightening and re-forming the tube that the spring rides in.
And once the thin aluminum pieces were re-formed, I sometimes had to make new holes for the ends of the springs - since the original holes were so badly deformed.
Good luck.
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
Thanks for the reply and the sharing of your experience with that particular project. Ray.
I think what you are looking for is called a "spring balance".
It is available from these people:
http://www.blainewindow.com/
for some jerk reason, they require you to sign up for a customer number before you can gain access to their parts list. I would just call them.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Thanks for the info. Blane Hdw certainly looks like one of those outfits that "If they don't have it, nobody does!"
Silentite windows
A little late, but may help someone else with the same question.. These are "Silentite" windows, made by Curtis Millwork. They were state-of-the-art for their time, and well worth restoring. The quality and detailing of these windows is pretty impressive.
I think some other posts on this thread have mis-identified them, confusing the metal key & channel you mention with a spring/tube mechanism found on other windows. These DO have a spring suspension system as you describe, but no "tube". The metal strips you speak of are draft stops (they were advertised as "insulated windows"- way ahead of their time!), and also provide a slight amount of friction and smooth the window movement. On my windows, I'm pretty sure they're made of stainless steel.. not a hint of rust, non-magnetic, and very stout for such thin metal. After removing the paint from them (where they say DO NOT PAINT METAL!), they are pristine.. and polish up nicely, if you're into that.
The trick to removing the sashes is likely buried under your paint: there are two screws on the faces of each sash stile (the verticals at each side) that need to be removed. These capture the metal fins (the "key" you speak of) in slots in the sides of the sash. After removing the screws, wedge a punch or putty knife vertically between the sash and the sill so that when you push the sash down, the metal fin strips are pushed out of their slot from the TOP of the sash. Once they're partially exposed at the top, use a pair of needle-nose pliers or vise-grips to extract them completely. You can likely get away with extracting just one side, so the sash will pop out from that side. Before re-installing (pretty much the reverse order), make sure the fin strips slide easily into the wooden sash slots; I filed/flattened them where the screws deformed them slightly.
Good info to file away, even if too late for the OP.
And welcome to Breaktime!