My husband and I would like to advise my elderly parents on the repair of the wooden gutters on their old farm house. At the outlet, the metal fitting (lead?) has failed and the water is allowed to wander. Please advise as to what kind of a fix we should look for. Thanks.
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At a minumum, the lead drop needs recaulking or replacing, and the gutters probably need some epoxy consolidant to make them solid again.
But before someone spends too much time and money on fixing the wood gutters, it might make sense to get a price to replace them with new aluminum gutters.
it might make sense to get a price to replace them with new aluminum gutters.
Heresy.
Replace your Mustang with a Prius.View Image
Toyota making one with a V-8 now?
notice I did say "might"
New aluminum gutters would be a possibility... the removal would be a feat (I guess) before the preparation and installation for aluminum. The fellow that we have spoken to on the phone mentions putting linseed oil on the old wooden gutters. The flanged pipe replacement seems easier than all new... what am I missing? Thanks for your ideas.
IF the wood gutters need to come down, the easy way is to cut them into small sections with a recip saw.
wait a minute!Again, you are assuming they were installed the way you typically see them. aren't you getting the cart in front of the horse here? so far, all we know is the guy has a bad lead drop and you are ready to take the house apart already!;)
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No, no, no.
In my first post, I said that he should fix the drop if that's the only problem. Maybe brush on some consolidant if the wood is soft.
I suggested the option of tearing off the wood gutters and installing aluminum if the wood ones are so bad they they aren't worth repairing.
Maybe I wasn't completely clear. But that's what I meant.
OK, we are setlled down now, did you see the GIF I posted to Grant? Has one detailed like you see it, and one the way I get them.
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Yeah, the one on the left is how I've seen them attached around here.
On some of them, there's been 1/4" or 3/8" spacers behind the gutter at the rafter tails, to allow drying.
I've also seen that cove detail under the gutter, with the spacers behind. Seems to me like the 2 features would counteract each other.
If you do an advanced search (top left) for wooden gutters, you'll find a wealth of information concerning them.
View Image
Are the gutters "built in" to the roof, or screwed to the facia? A photo of existing conditions would be helpful.
I am sorry to say that the house we are discussing is in Massachusetts and we are in NY. We plan to go there late in the weekend. We believe that the gutters are built into the roof... but can't really remember.
I am sorry that I am not better informed.
What town in Massachusetts?
Westport, MA (Acoaxet)... is that helpful??
Well it is to far away for me to help you but you might find somebody else here who can help.
If the gutters are sound linseed oil is a good idea. The lead goosenecks will need to be fixed first so the caulking will stick.
I am grateful to all of you for your replies. This is very helpful.
Selden
Selden,
Heres a Shutterfly album of the most recent ones I've done
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq1sg
I'm usually in favor of lining them with copper so that the wood remains, but the copper is the wear surface.
I'll send pics if you like.
I don't understand why some have suggested replacing with AL. Almost all wood gutters are integral to the house trim package and cannot be simply replaced.
Not sure just what you mean about the lead drop having failed. It could be that it needs new lead, having worn right through, or it could be that you simply need to caulk around it with geocel.
I do a lot of wood gutter repair. They should be tended to annually, Clean, inspect, caulk joints, and oil the wood with penofin.
Unfortunately, most people neglect that and they are lucky to be getting cleaned out. I get to see some with baby trees growing in the muck that has built up in them from years of neglect. Hopefully you won't have that much to deal with.
For tools, I have ladders, a heat gun, a scrap of metal cut to approximately the same curve shape as the interior of the gutter for a scraper, and a bunch of wire brush wheels for a drill and cup brush that fits on my grinder, and caulk gun and disposable 2" brushes. Oh - and nitrile surgical gloves. any rubber gloves fine
Cheaper wire brush wheels for drill you can get for a few dollars.
I clean out debris, scrap with the metal scrap, then use the wire brush wheel to remove scuz and dirt from wood surface. drill body fits right into the gutter more or less, so it is not too hard. You want eye protection also, because wires will spin off and hit you in the face unless you hold away.
I almost always find damp wood that I need to dry, so that is where I use the heat gun on a low setting so as not to burn the wood fibres and weaken them. On a good sunny day, if I move right along cleaning, by time I get a hundred feet of gutter clean, it is mostly dry back at the starting point.
As I cleaned, I checked for needed repairs. A decent gutter with good drainage that gets regular service only needs some touch up with the Geocell caulk here and there at joints.
There are neglected gutters though that need an epoxy wood consolidant and then filler that will take you longer than a weekend. Possibly require a pro to do it. and if it is too bad, you are better off getting it relined with copper.
the process is to use a low viscosity epoxy made for rot repair. Common to find at marine places. One brand is Git-Rot. System Three makes another.
The idea is that it will penetrate the wood fibres, then harden. It uses a slow hardener so that it has lots of time to penetrate first. so it normally kicks in 24 hours. With weather being colder now, it could take longer.
There is more, by way of tricks and technique, if you want to hear it all
But I suspect that you will find damp weather this coming weekend and not be able to do more.
For the drop, the lumberyards around here have them available in two sizes, so measure yours first as to diameter, or get one of each. this is assuming it needs replacement. Old ones can wear right thru from years of water and debris flushing over them
The hole it fits in must be clean, remove old nails. For new work you have to carve a small seat sp the flange fits flush, but yours probably already has this. Just have to be sure it is clean. Do a test fit, shaping the lead neatly to the seat by tapping with a hammer. I also have a 1-1/4"dowel with a rounded tip to use this way to tap with my hammer. Once it fits fine, mark which way it goes in, remove it, then cover the seat with caulk, slide the drop back into place, and tap it into the caulk. Then you need to nail it in. I use 3d fine galv nails. some guys get SS 4d ring shanks. After nailing to hold it, then more caulk over nail heads.
I
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Paul,
I'm amazed at how much maintainence that you're willing to put in on a yearly basis to keep wooden gutters functional.
Doesn't anyone out on your Island line them with copper and then just a yearly leaf removal needed?
I have lined a couple with Copper myself. The negative there was spillover caused green staining on the white paint. What is amazing to me is how "caretakers" get away with no taking care of the things - not even cleaning them. which is why they spill water over...The other thing - the best time to reline with CU is when you replace the roof, which is when I had done those others.
One two of these that I've done with epoxy ten years ago, I recommended that when roofing time comes along, they should reline. One both of them, they got re-shingled but no attention to the gutter at all. One - not even cleaning up the roof debris!Used to be that painters and caretakers got the job of tending to the gutters. Now it seems to be a 'specialty'.I really don't like doing it. Nasty work and a lot of moving ladders around. I need it to be a job where they have some other work to go along with it - not hard to find on a a house where the caretaking has been slack - so that once I am set up, I can do other work while epoxy kicks or there is a a day of wet weather, or I just need a break from ladder work.Something we could visit about when we get around to that lunch together someday.
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there was spillover caused green staining on the white paint.
Might want to re-think your edge detail. View Image
good time to describe how you do that one. I had it made up so there was about a 1/4" drop to the outside. That gave me a J shape that snapped ontot he up-edge of the outside of the gutter.Truth be told, if I have another to do, I might be getting Walter out her to take care of it.
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I'd have to look at the profile (IIRC, Walter has a detail very similar to what I'd use), but the goal would be to make everything drain to the inside with a good drip kick on the outside bottom edge.
I've never even seen a wooden gutter in person, but I'd approach it like a built in gutter. View Image
Don't know why, but I've never shot photos of all this up close.
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I'd have that edge detail on the front lip of the gutter. The liner would go up under what ever the roofing material is.View Image
Yeah, I had them made up with a high rise at back that I either bend tot he roof plane or trimmed off, forget which now it's been so long
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I suggested the possibility of replacing them because most of the wood gutters I've seen around here have a very similar profile to the standard Al gutter, and are attached to the fascia board, like the Al. Plus the Al gutter will carry a lot more water.
An integral gutter is what I would call a Yankee gutter, an entirely different critter.
I made the suggestion because if the wood gutters are so far gone that they require a lot of work to make them sound again, Al might be cheaper.
If the OP has the time and inclination to put the labor into fixing them, he could very well have perfectly good gutters thatbwill last for years. But, if he has to hire someone to fix gutters with a lot of rot, it might be cheaper to just replace them.
I guess they install differently there. Here, they were installed to the rafter tails, then trim around them.Given your typical, it could be better to replace with AL. I have only seen a couple so bad they had to be replaced. As far as AL carrying more water, it all depends what size each one is.Given my typical, it would be cheaper to reline with CU if gone too far.
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