The maple or fir woodwork in our 100-year old house has never been painted. Some of the woodwork is fine and some needs heavy cleaning and “light” refinishing, especially window sills Would like to avoid stripping everything. Any suggestions? Thanks!
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You may be lucky and find the bottom layer of finish is shellac. If so, lots of denatured alcohol will dissolve it, and many, many small pieces of 000 and 0000 steel wool (cut each biscuit into quarters) will lift it. You can take it all off, or take off some and flow it around to even it out.
We did this on our 1886 house; shellac then, and lacquer in 1916. After we took most of it off, we finished it with low gloss tung oil, and it's been great.
Forrest
I am not stepping on your toes here. And MY situ MAY be vastly different than yours.
I have been working w/ shellac for decades ( I can honestly say that now) and in my exp. with OLD shellac, it is not readily reamalgamated as easily as you might think.
Old shellac was spirited with both alcohol and petroleum based vehicles, therefore a blanket statement that alcohol will "solve" is erroneous.
Take for example any French Polish that was cut with long oils or varnish ( they co-exist in solution, and polmerize in co hesiveness upon curing)..and that is a finish that is almost inprgnable to an alcohol test..so we have a film that requires rejuvinating or at least a gentle scrubb and re- application, this is a call that can be only made by tactile and visual inspection.
Just a good wash is immense in the determination of the next course of action, but that same wash, without a proper rinse is like ...well, shampoo in yer hair.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Ow! Ow! Ow!
{hopping on one foot}
Just trying to generalize from my personal experience with the house I'm sitting in . . .
My, what beautiful woodwork!
Forrest
Sphere
Wouldnt you say that those methods of finish would be found more on furniture then woodwork in a house?
Just currious, I kinda know some of your background, well not as much as the FBI but still...
I've encountered some shellac as you describe but not to much in the way of woodwork in a house. Just figured they would have taken the quick and dirty method and brushed it strait out of the Zinser can!!!
I dont have enough experience in this to really form a good answer, I'm just currious where you were seeing the finishes that you mention.
Doug
Doug
Actually, I have encountered it more than I'd like to admit. I refurbished a lot of old woodwork in homes in the Phila. area circa 1790-1850. Now maybe the shellac ( well duh) was different then, but the inclusion of varnish was not uncommon OR the 'lac used was of higher solids and the age has made it almost impervious to redissolving.
If you know yer 'lac, you know that refining was/is a relatively new process, as is the introduction of wax...old button lac was raw and very dark and thick....and plentiful with the ships sailing to India and the far east for trade purposes.
Then it got expensive in the early yrs of ww1, the govmint used it on the plane fabric..and England had a cornerstone in India, and needed an air command..
That made the raw lac highly coveted and they found that the introduction of wax was a beneficial aspect, due to better (longer) open time, and better water resistance from the condensation of atmosphereic subtleties.
The added varnish was due to the flax seed that was prevalent from the farming of the flax for the increasing population needing clothes, I.E Linen. In the new world .
Hemp oil was used later as a retardant to mildew,( cuz shellac, is prone to being eaten, by mold, it is a food residue after all, and we have it in many of our food stuffs and cosmetics) and also polmerizes ( exposeure to O2, oxidizes any natural oil, as does UV light) and was added as a hardener, cuz the raw lac was often hydroscopic in its ability to "hold" moisture, hence its willing ness to cloud up in humid enviros. The added long oils helped with that cooling effect, and added clarity to the final finish and allowed a longer open time or flow out and levelling.
Once cured, the "old" shellac is nearly impervious to any thing except Methylene-Chloride or submersion in water so that the wood is repeling due to expansion of long periods of dehydration,and thus 'sheds' it's coating, be it paint, shellac, varnish.
When nitro cell was discovered it pretty much took a grand hold due to it's inherent plusses of flow out and fast conversion from liquid to a solid state. It was also very good at burning in, like shellac, but being a different solvent base, it had fewer of the drawbacks, and more of the resistance to microbial activity.
Then the conversion varnishes stood up..and they were used as an alternative to the relatively weak film of nitro..and the ( back to boats and hemp) conversion varnishes needed UV blockers, that matrix is unstable in its own form, and must be suspended in a non alcohol solution and they cross link as a chain, versus the unified cohesion of paralell strands like nitro does.
If you get cotton looking strands you know what I mean..cross linking weaves a mesh of molecules in a more random pattern, adding strength to the film, and more resistance to abrasion in a direction useually associated with straight line sanding..which was due to the industry trying to speed things up with mechanized sanders.
Jump ahead to aliphatic resins and coploymers in a water based crosslinking pattern and you are where we stand now.
I have the future finish right here, right now. VOC friendly, user friendly, and durable. I am not going to share it yet, till I get the patent search completed and I trademark the name/formula.
But I will give you a clue..stabil wax.
I hope I didn't bore you or write a tome, but outta my head is better than stuck in it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Damn Duane, that is more then I knew!
My incounters with shellac are limited to some antique restoration and very little in the way of house trim.
What I want to know is how the hell did that first guy decide that bug excriment would make a good finish!
Doug
"
What I want to know is how the hell did that first guy decide that bug excriment would make a good finish!"
Probly the same guy that thought a lobster would be tasty.
Actually, the Chinese or Japanese took Lac beetle poop to a MUCH higher level, I THINK it was called Urishi or close to that, VERY TOXIC, they may have introduced lead as the precurser to our "paint'' as we know it from then. Black and Red was prominant and the sheen was like glass.
They achieved a hardness in those hues, when they attempted green and blues, it was unsatisfactory as far as durabilty and luster.
I could go on, but finishing wood gets historically vacant for a long time after that.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Murphy's oil soap and sctchbrite scrubbies ( green is kinda coarse, go maroon) and PLENTY of clean rags and wash out the water pail often.
Let dry and paste wax w/ 4/0 steel wool and buff away with even more clean rags.
Stand back and behold yer work.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
Just do whatcha gotta do...sandpaper, thinners, strippers, heat guns...Just do it! You'll figure it out once you get started.
I was hesitant to sand down one of my 326 year old floors. Was in bad shape and Shaggy said to me..."they'll still be old floors". Simple. Worked for me.
Start with the least offensive stripper and work your way up. Just do it!
Use resperators and what ever protection necessary (I should follow my own advice on that one...ugh)
Be well
andy aka: Chief Lotsadust...cough cough
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
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After you try Murphy's or the like, you can also see how plain old turpentine or a 50/50 mix of turp and linseed oil will do - applied with a rag (after u are done, leave it outside to dry if u use linseed oil, it can combust) or with steel wool if u are careful with the drips -
An alternative to Murphy's is to use waterless hand cleaner (GoJo). Be sure to get it at an automotive place. It should be about $1 per pint. Use coarse steel wool and swirl it on. It might take two passes if there were smokers in the house or some extra dirty places. Wipe off with soft rags, the type you buy by the box or bag. Keep two towels going, one dirty for the first wipe and a cleaner one for the second. As the second gets dirty, move it to the first position and get a new one. As they get dirty, toss in a bucket of water and soilax (available at paint stores - a no-rinse cleaner).
If the shellac is seriously crazed, removal is the only solution if you want to get rid of the crazing. Light crazing I can live with.
If you want to add another coat of shellac, clean the wood with mineral spirts or turpentine right before brushing.
Definitely try the less aggressive first, before moving to stripping.
Very helpful! I'd read about GoJo but was not sure how to use. Can I just wipe the GoJo off the woodwork with the rags or do I need to do any sort of rinse to remove it? Is the Soilax just to clean the rags before I wash them? Thanks Bryan!
No rinsing needed with GoJo (that's why they call it a waterless cleaner). For whatever reason, the home improvement stores seem to charge a lot more for it than auto parts places. If it is much over $1 per pint, keep looking. I've only found pint containers of the regular stuff. The larger containers seem to be designed for wall mounted dispensers. I believe we end up using 3 to 4 containers per room, but it is cheap enough to stock up. Our wood is yellow pine and some oak, both of which are very hard. So we haven't had any problems with too much elbow grease or the steel wool. We've never tried a sponge.Yes, the soilax is just to help clean the rags. If you allow the dirty rags to dry, they don't come clean.
I bought a pint of GoJo today and started cleaning the woodwork and am thrilled! Does a great job cleaning and seems to enhance the finish. I also like that it has no fumes. Most likely, I'll still have to do some light stripping on a few of the windows where the finish is badly alligatored but I think GoJo will work on 90% of the woodwork
Now that the woodwork is clean, I don't think it needs a coat of shellac . But I am considering tung oil or Butchers Wax to give some protection and even out a few spots. What's your point of view on tung oil versus Butcher's Wax?
Thanks for the help!!!
Assuming you have shellac, my understanding is that Johnson's paste wax (or something similar) is the best choice. Not a carnuba wax (too hard). I'm not sure about butchers wax, but since it is food safe, I don't see a need for it. Tung oil is designed to be absorbed into the wood, so I don't think it would do anything on wood that has a clear coat. You want to buff the wax enough to build up heat so that it "melts" into the finish.If your windows are real bad off, you might be better off stripping them and then using something like CAB acrylic and one of the new age lacquers that are UV resistant. They are tintable with TransTint.Since windows are the most exposed to temperature shifts, they will often be the worst off. The have the most wood movement.
"An alternative to Murphy's is to use waterless hand cleaner (GoJo). Be sure to get it at an automotive place."Why at a auto place?But use CAUTION, a lot of it had punice in it. I have to go to several different auto part places to find some that didn't.
Man, I heard the GoJo deal first time on this thread, and cleaned up my granddads greasy old shop stool for my youngest today. It turned out beautiful, nice and worn through the green milk paint.
Forrest
At least around here, the auto places are much cheaper, 0.99 a pint. The box stores and paint stores seem to charge much more. Don't know why.I forgot about the pumice issue, but your right, many have pumice and it seems best to avoid those.
I agree with the GoJo recommendation by BryanSayer. If it's not real dirty you can simply use a sponge, but heavier dirt will require a scrubby or steel wool - just be cautious until you get a feel for how much elbow grease to apply.
I bought an antique carpenter's chest that was dark brown. After I started cleaning it with GoJo and steel wool I discovered it was yellow milk paint with a coating of shellac. If your original woodwork and finish are in good condition there is no need to strip.
DuaneD
Damm..another Duane spelled right!
Hi, I am Duane too.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
I would lean towards cleaning it first. Murphy's is a good start. Find out what the finish is then go from there. Chances are (given the age), it was oil or the old type of shellac like Sphere was saying. I have made my own cleaning soutions depending on what the finish was. With wood that old there's a good chance that there is some sort of wax build up along with the dirt and grime of the years.
Test a door jam. After it's cleaned and stripped of waxes, you might want to put something on to keep it that way a while longer. Maybe even fresh Butchers wax, dark or blond.
If cleaning doesn't work as well as you want, then try a part of it with stripper. First try denatured alcohol with a bit of spirits in it with 0 steel wool. You don't have to get all the grime completely off as some will remain in the corners and cracks leaving you with a nice patina along with all the dings etc.
The last thing I would do is to sand the woodwork. If you do, then try it very lightly at first and you may find that it's enough to just do the trick.
The main thing in restoring woodwork of a house is to try and be consistant in your approach to maintain an even quality. Try and find the point where the beauty comes through in the wood, then stop. It's hard to get back once you have gone past it.