Here’s a series of shots that might be of interest.
The last two walls on this house were in the back of the master suite and great room. It’s a small ranch.
The pics show the wall after it’s been framed, sheathed and Tyveked. After putting the overhangs on it, I’ll show how we snatch it and drive it around with the Skytrak.
blue
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I’m a hackmeister…they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Replies
We grabbed the wall after it was finished with the Trak and drove it around the cornfield.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The wall is brought around.
Oh, Oh, the Pistons have started....I'll be back to finish this thread...
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue,
I hope the Sonics meet the Pistons and stomp them!! :-)
Great pics as usual.
Tim, I'd love the Pistons to play Seattle. That would mean that we are in the finals! Of course, you'd better hope that we don't dismantle another team like we did to L.A. last year!
Back to work now: This pic shows the bay being guided in by Steve. Frank eventually asked me to help steer it home because it was leaning severely due to the hookup.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I knew it.
The Pistons lost again.
I think NJ is making an offer to buy the team.
Why?
I knew it. The Pistons lost again.
Bah Humbug! The Pistons don't know how to lose and NJ doesn't have enough money to buy them!
Go suck a dunkin donut Latte'.
blue
PS does custard donuts work in the D Mix?
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Okay, back to work, enough of the Pistons winning!
At this point we're setting the bay wall. Since it wasn't hooked in a way that allowed it to hang properly, I had to stop taking pics and help Steve set it. Basically, he just needed someone fatter (me) to lean on it and get it upright.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Now it's a simple matter to nail it down and connect the side wall.
There's a shot of the wall from the exterior.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
These pics show a little better detail regarding the soffit systems that are pre built on the wall before sening them in. Our primary objective when prebuilding is to eliminate the need for scaffolding.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
After setting the bay wall, I immediately built the last wall on the first floor. It was the great room wall. It will have a 18 or 20' tall chimney chase. This wall will also have a gable attached that I will build after I get the porch done. Since the wall was balancing well, Steve didn't need any help landing it.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Now the porch!
This pic shows the house's north and west sides. Each will receive an 8' covered porch.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I frame the skeleton of the porch first, then sheath it using 3/8" rough sawn exterior plywood. I'm building it in 16' sections.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Nice work Blue. What's the temp been like where you are? That rough sawn is nice looking material. We use that on soffits sometimes and it looks good painted. Do you guys frame 2x6 or 2x4 outside walls? I can't wait to see more pics.
Hope you been staying busy.
Tim, I'm as busy as I could possibly be. The weather has been cold! I actually lit a fire bucket two days ago and this job started with snow on the ground a week ago Monday!
Then it rained for three days! It was a mudhole!
Of course I layed down ten sheets of plywoon on some 2x10s and worked high and dry!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The crane was tied up, so I built the first two sections on Tuesday. I'd guess that it took me an hour, or an hour and a half. Wednesday, they were waiting for me.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I'm on the crane taking pictures. I'm going to hook it and flip it to add the last members for hooking and some structural beams.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Ive added the double 2 x 10 beams and added a second lacer to hook the straps. I'm not particularly fond of the hook up, but there really isn't a lot of weight. Still, no one gets under the load for any reason when it's flying. We automatically assume that something will fail and the load WILL fall.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The first section is now ready to go. We send it up to Steve and he nails it to the house.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Steves puts the level on the section and we'll add a temp post.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
After setting that first corner section, I'll work my way down the side.
These pics show the first side section being set. Notice the structural beam hanging 8' out. Somehow, I managed to get the section balanced on the first try even though it was very lopsided. Good guessing helps!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
As I was looking at the pics, I noticed that Steve was actually making the proper signal for the situation! That surprised me because he often wants the crane operator to do the incorrect thing.
He basically guides the section alone but at the last moment, Carl will walk over and help him do the final tweaking and nailing.
Each section takes about 5 minutes to set and then Frank was using another five minutes to set the posts.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The last section on the west side of the house is completed. It was a smaller one, a little less than 10'.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Now we continue on with the front porch sections.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Heres another pic of the hookup. and the setting of the front sections.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Oops...photo mixups!Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
This shows the hookup. I used a 10' stud nailed securely to the top side of the sections. The guys will use those studs as a rat run when they are setting the rafters.
This section is the last section that we had structural beams for. We had some 18' 2x 10 on order but they didn't show up. We'll set the last two sections without the beams.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Here's a shot of the last section going in.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
The front is completed!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Oos, another goof.
Heres' the pic of the completed front section.
Heres the numbers: I needed about ten hours to build those six sections of the porch soffit. That included time spent for engineering/design, and some rest time (I'm old and need a break now and then). If you add in the other guys times, it would add about twenty minutes per section, maybe thirty, for an additional three hours.
We'll install the rest of the soffit system from above. That will include the additional beams that need to be dropped in. If I had an OSHA approved scaffold for the Skytrak, I could possibly move the crane out of the way and work off that, but I don't think it would be faster. It might actually take more time, but would be more comfortable working although it really won't be too bad hanging over installing the soffit systems, which I'll prebuild in 16' sections too.
Before we install any soffit, we'll complete the beams and install all the permanent posts. We'll set the three corners level, then sight the entire porch straight by eye. After that, we'll install the frieze using parallel measurements, then drop the soffits onto them. The rafters come last.
We'll do that on Monday since Frank left for Vegas for the weekend. I'm off till then doing other work.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Do the other guys get honked off at ya for spending all this time taking pics instead of working?(-:
When asked why he doesn't support the Dems like most minorities do: "I decided I was tired of living on the liberals' plantation." [Walter Williams]
The other guys don't really care Boss. I know your just kidding me, but actually, I'm taking the pictures to use in some upcoming marketing materials. I just decided to post some of them because theres a few guys in here that like to see this kind of stuff.
I've probably snapped 150 pics on this house alone. I plan on snapping 10 to 30 pics each day on every job that we do from now on.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Keep taking pics!! Blue, that looks like a cool project. Enjoy the sunshine :-)
Yeah, these photo journals are always great. Keep 'em coming.
Hey, I got a question. What do you gain by building these panels on horses and flying them as opposed to building them on the deck and tilting them up? Are the worker ants busy installing the deck while you are building panels? Or?
uh ohI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
"uh oh" what?
I'll guess you missed a 'highly spirited' thread a bit back on Table Top Boogerin' by Blue.
It went on for a while.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Yeah, I did miss that discussion. Thanks for the explination.
Blue - I meant that as a sincere question. Hope you didn't take it any other way.
Jim, I didn't see anything wrong with your question. I think Eric was just funning you. I'm not sure what he meant about that last thread being highly spirited. I don't remember any flame wars. Or, maybe my memory is real short. I wouldn't mind your question even if they were meant to challenge the wisdom of these techinques. I'm a firm believer in self scrutiny and every question you could possible ask, I've already asked myself!
I'll finish this house out and do a full thread on the next.
blue
I think Eric was just funning you. I'm not sure what he meant about that last thread being highly spirited. I don't remember any flame wars.
Maybe it was the blocking thread, or the one on HAP and hips!
You know I was finnin' ya both.
Nice pics Blue, thanks for sharing.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Glad I saw your name in another thread, reminded me I never did follow up on this thread.
First off - that not having to bend over is reason enough, that's a good one.
But you know, after reading this last week I was thinking about the potential for a enterprising framer to build a nice little business selling panels. Be easy enough to set up if you had a couple acres.
One roof to frame the panels under, another to store the materials. A fork lift to move panels and slings of materials (which you could buy at a good price by the semi load). A boom truck to deliver and unload the finished panels at the jobsite. A few contractors who are interested in buying precision built, weather protected walls (which they could errect in a couple days thereby shortening the time they pay interest on the building loan).
You've probably already thought all this through, huh?
Edited 5/13/2005 9:36 pm ET by jim blodgett
There's some really neat wall panel equipment out there. You can frame walls very efficiently and quickly with some pretty high-tech toys. The last place I worked at had maybe $500,000 invested in wall panel equipment. They produced a very high quality product, and produced a lot of it. The place I work for now has nothing but a plywood table and a couple of guns. And the guys who build the occasional wall panel job aren't particularly talented and don't like building walls. So we offer poor sevice and quality. (And I don't sell wall panels from here if I can help it)The only downside to the wall panel business is that the margins are fairly low. You can't get a lot of markup on them, or they won't sell. I could go on quite a bit about it if you're interested...
If it ain't broken, fix it until it is.
Well, I generally find myself fascinated by efficient processes, Boss, regardless of what the product is. But when it's something I've been making my living at for 30 years, and I catch myself thinking "hey, that's a good idea" then I try to stop and ponder it for a while.
You know, after I posted this last night I was thinking you could get set up pretty nicely for maybe 100k. That wouldn't be such a big bite for a buisness.
Hey, what about roof panels? You ever run into that? Kind of like SIPs, but just the framing? Doesn't seem so far fetched to me - leave the bottom row of sheathing off so the birdsmouths could be fastened to the top plate? Geez, imagine how much easier it would be to sheath (maybe even shingle) a steep roof flat on a table (heck, maybe even vertically instead of horizontally). Or floor panels?
So do tell. What have you seen? Why the heck would the company you work for be set up to panelize walls without following through and hiring help good enough to produce a competetive product?
"what about roof panels? You ever run into that?"
Haven't seen that yet, but it's an interesting idea.
"Why the heck would the company you work for be set up to panelize walls without following through and hiring help good enough to produce a competetive product? "
I think contractors are pushing for it, but the company hasn't found anyone who wants to take a serious stab at running it yet.
" What have you seen?"
Heck, where to start? Here's a web page that might give you an idea of what the software is capable of:
http://www.alpeng.com/PanelVIEW.html
Here's a couple of shots of framing tables:
http://www.wasserman-associates.com/Hclary3.JPG
http://www.wasserman-associates.com/Hclary4.JPG
In the 2nd picture, you can see the 2 framing guns on the edge of the table. The guns just slide along a rail. When you want to nail a stud, you push the thing up against the top plate and hit the button. Both guns fire at once.
Here's a shot of a stapling bridge. There are staple guns lined up across the panel line. You can drop them down over a stud and fire them all at once. There's a lazer that you line up with the stud nails so they all hit the stud.
http://www.woodtrusssystems.com/includes/display_image.php?equipment_id=185&begin=2
Here's another shot of a stapling bridge:
http://www.woodtrusssystems.com/includes/display_image.php?equipment_id=186&begin=3
There's more stuff like this, but these are all I could come up with at the moment.
I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it.
Jim, I would think there is potential for a guy to set up a panelization shop. Around here, we've had a guy doing that for at least twenty years that I know of.
The biggest detriment that I see would be the cost of shipping. It's expensive to maintain an 18 wheeler if it isn't running every day.
Boss mentions that the margins are low and I would probably agree with that, but I have no way of knowing for sure because I don't buy lumber by the trainload.
It's an interesting thought for someone other than me.
blue
"Boss mentions that the margins are low and I would probably agree with that, but I have no way of knowing for sure because I don't buy lumber by the trainload."
Just to give ya a rough idea -
The lumber that's sold around here at lumberyards is often only marked up about 10% over cost. Sometimes the big boxes sell it for almost the same price as what you can buy it in truckload quantities.
The gross markup over direct costs is typically about 35-40% at the companies I've worked for. And that margin has to cover your buildings, office overhead, shipping, material handling, waste, mistakes, and everything else I can't think of at the moment.
So that's why I say margins are pretty thin.
She got her good looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon.
What do you gain by building these panels on horses and flying them as opposed to building them on the deck and tilting them up?
Jim, thats a great question, one that we are currently exploring.
One of the most striking advantages regarding our on-site panelization efforts has been in the area of material usage. Take a look at this picture of my work station. You'll notice two five gallon buckets there. Those five gallon buckets are my scrap collectors. IF the lumber drops don't fit into those buckets, they go back onto the lumber piles that are right next to my work table or they're stored on the horses and will be used asap on the next walls. At the point that this picture was taken, I'd already framed most of the exterior walls on the house and had was just starting the garage walls (the plates on the table are treated). Basically, I'm creating a very, very low amount of scrap. On most days, I only need to make one trip to the scrap heap with those two buckets.
The next advantage is co-ordination of the worker bees. While I'm framing the exterior walls, they are framing the interior partitions, or building the decks. On this particular project, I've worked alone while Frank had one guy (Steve) with him on the decks. We got a little out of sync because Frank had me help with the 1st floor deck framing instead of building the garage walls while they worked the deck. We'll be doing this same house again next week and I'll have a helper out there with me. We'll be pushing the flow of the deck building and interior framing to it's maximum production rate. Two guys on the table is extremely efficient, especially if you set up the lumber correct. I let Frank set up the lumber on this project, but that won't happen again.
Safety is a big factor too. I think it's fairly obvious to understand that installing 16' panels is much safer than raising a 52' wall with a 60' porch attached. The potentials for disaster are many when tilting something like that up. I've tilted a few monsters in my day, never lost anything, but the time spent building in the safeguards is significant. Frank knows firsthand about not building in the proper safeguards: he lost a 40' wall with a 8 x 40' porch and almost lost his life in the deal. The crane operator (it wasn't our crane then) on that lift failed to understand the physics involved in the lift and made a major mistake causing a chain reaction. Only a deep tire rut saved Frank.
Also, we can't overlook the specialization factor. The interior framing and deck guys do all the interior framing and decks. I'm on the outside and concentrating on outside walls. I may stumble through the first wall but at the end of the job, I'm on auto pilot, flying at full speed. The same thing happened with the porch sections. The first two took twice as long as the last two. Essentially, I'm applying the same techniques that Henry Ford used to gain significant time savings in the production of the automobile.
Jim, one other major benefit comes to mind: I don't have to bend over very much. That's huge for a guy with messed up vertabraes like mine!
blue
< theres a few guys in here that like to see this kind of stuff.>yeah........!!!!!as i wipe the drool of my keyboardsI completely missed this thread, looks like funkeep em coming
looks like " boom down " to me
View Image
mebbe there is hope for the next generationMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Your right Mike, it was the boom down signal and the most amazing thing is that it was the right call too!
blue
i had to learn the signals with cable cranes.. 100' booms.. setting 10 ton breakwater stone and steel sheeting..
then , loe & beholde... they developed hydraulic telescoping booms... with another whole set of signals..
most of the crane operators we get have no idea what we're signaling.. they never watch anyways... because they don't trust the contractors they're sent out to work with
so.. we always start out by discussing signals with them and explaining to the guys that there can only be one guy giving the signals.. Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
lemme guess.. this was the same snow storm that snowed out the tigers/ twins ?
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, it might very well be that storm!
It was friggin miserable! Out there in the cornfields the snow blew over the roads and it was all I could do to get to the job that day.
I hate Michigan. Now it's orange barrel season. It's either winter, or orange barrel season. I hope the state sinks into the great lakes!
We did manage to gain 150 jobs in the latest Defense Department shakedown!
blue