One-room split cooling systems. $$$
Ask This Old House this demonstrated a solution for cooling a single room that resided above a garage. At one point, the homeowner had a large 25,000 BTU window unit, but Richard suggested a package solution in which the compressor and coil were no more than 49′ from the chiller and internal blower. I think Mitsubishi might have made this unit–a friend paid to have one just like it installed a couple of Summers back (~$2600!).
What I do not seem to understand, other than the fact that the ATOH segment failed to mention having a licensed HVAC charge it and the costs for having a licensed contractor install it, was that no one mentioned why cooling just seems to never come down in price.
So, I think some of you know what systems I am talking about and wonder what you may have been charging customers to install them (if you have installed them). To me, $2500-3000 seems like a lot of money for a complete system like that when the cost are about the same to cool & heat an entire floor of my home.
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I've been contemplating this type of unit myself. I found I could buy the hardware for $500-$1000 (or even less) on ebay. I'm just not sure about the install. It appears the only thing really needed for most of them is someone to pump a vacuum in the lines and release the refrigerant charge. Also, a lot of them function as heat pumps too.
Exactly! For me to cut up a wall cavity, run the two refrigerent lines, the electrical circuit, and the condensate drain line would be easy--in terms of sweat-equity. And while I wouldn't expect the mechanical person to warranty the components, I would hope that their experience and expertise could detect a potential problem that may result in early failure and adjust service quality therein. Unfortunately, I'm in a dream-world as it would still be +$1000 to have someone come out and vacuum out the lines and charge the system.
Unfortunately, I'm in a dream-world as it would still be +$1000 to have someone come out and vacuum out the lines and charge the system.
I've found a small vacuum pump for $15, and the systems all come with the refrigerant charge anyway, I'd just need to release it. If I do it myself, I'll let you know how it goes! It kind of seems worth taking the chance, if I'm getting the units so cheap. I was also told that I could get most any appliance repair person to do the vacuum....
I wasn't aware they these kits came with refrigerant.
>>"It appears the only thing really needed for most of them is someone to pump a vacuum in the lines and release the refrigerant charge.
I got to tell ya I've never done it, but I have a buddy (former boss) who put a system in a place he rehabbed and didn't have to vacuum the lines. My (admitedly inexperienced) understanding is that as long as you buy a new sealed lineset, you can cut 'em open, silver solder and release the charge into them. The vacuum pump is to clean lines that are either existing or that were not sealed to keep 'em squeeky clean. Maybe not, I can see why you'd want to release the freon into a vacuum instead of having a bunch of air mixed in with it, but this is the way he did it and it did work.
Would welcome correction -- something I'd like to learn how to do right.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
The units I looked at came with flare connections, although I have seen the others. The guy selling told me that moisture in the air (in the lines) would be bad for the units over time, unless it was removed. I also read in one place that there was a technique, as long as the lines aren't too long, for using some of the refrigerant to flush out the air in the lines, or at least most of it. I found units that seem fine to me and can buy two for $900, I'm just debating whether to take the chance on doing it all myself. I also like the idea of being able to use them for zoned heat when it's not too cold here in MA.
Cost me about $1.100 a few years back for a new mitsubishi unit. If I had to pay someone to install it , I could see where it could cost $2,500.
I guess it could depend on the immediate access from the wall unit to the outside unit. For my friend, he seemed to have about the easiest access for install there could be. $1400 in labos is out there for a one-room solution requiring no ducts, and usually a separate electrician is needed for the circuit--unless the blower operates on 110-112VAC.
wal mart has big in wall units real cheap
Are you talking about a split system? If not then its not worth considering. All-in-one units are too loud.
there are lots and lots of "japanese" split systems in use on Carribean islands for "motel" size room (S) - Panasonic, Sanyo, Mitsu, and about 3 others- you do not see them sold here tho.
odd.
Many have remote controls for the high mounted fan units inside.
wal mart has big in wall units real cheap
And they're real garbage Chinese units, very light and very inefficient. I got one for my shop last year; fortunately for for me it was damaged and I returned it (chassis bent in shipping).
Wait for an AC sale at Sears, one can get them for only a little but more than Wal Mart. The one I got looked much better built; it was made in Korea rather than China/
I have installed dozens of these units over a period of about 12 years or so. The ones I have used were all made in Japan and sold under various brand names. They all come with a refrigerant charge that is good for so many feet of line (usually around 25' or so). It is not very often that I have gone more than the 25'.
You can order various length line kits for the units. Usually you can't go more than about 50'. (This is the distance between the inside wall unit and the outside unit)
Most of the smaller units cost around $1200 or so with the line kit. It is also important to note whether the unit requires 240 volts or not. Many units with the same output use different voltage. The small Sanyos for instance, use 120v. This could be important when you are looking to power the unit.
As for installation, I would not call any of them easy..and some of them can be very challenging to say the least!! You have the two insulated copper tubes to route and you have the drain line and electrical lines. In the simplest and ugliest arrangement, you just stick the lines through the side of the building and down the outside. Most homeowners will not settle for this, so there is usually quite a bit of trim work to do.
A skilled DIY can easily do this if you follow the directions. In the old days, the directions were written by a Japanese fellow who had just started to learn english. They are somewhat better today. If any of you work on Komatsu equipment and use their shop manuals, this will be a breeze for you!!
As for the charging process....all of the units I have installed use flared fittings. You have to cut and flare the tubing to the right length. After the lines are connected, you just release the charge into the lines and "bingo" the unit works perfectly. The first one I installed 12 years ago is still working perfectly (in fact all of them are working perfectly). Lately the manufacturers have encouraged you to get a HVAC guy over and bleed and charge it, especially if you have gone longer than the 26' of original charge. Whether this is absolutely necessary is anyone's guess. They were hooked up for years without vacuum bleeding the system. I think it is probably a good idea to do it.
There are also units available that use one outside unit to handle 2 or 3 inside units.
I put in a 9K BTU Hitachi mini-split heat pump last year for about $750 total. Installation of the outdoor and indoor units and line set took a full weekend, but if I had to do it again I could probably finish in a day. The unit came pre-charged and I hired a tech to vaccuum the lines and check the pressures. He was "off the clock" and charged me $80 for a half hour's work. Not a bad deal considering the local HVAC pros wanted $2500-$3500 for the same install.
I've had my HVAC guys install Mitsubishi 9K units for 1700 complete and the 17K units for 2500 on various jobs. They work very well in areas where you can't get ductwork. Unless you can bury the lines somewhere, you have to go exterior as someone else mentioned, but they do make material to put the lines in on the outside although they don't look that great
always amazes me why you can buy a whirlpool window unit at 24000 BTU for 2 or 3 hundred $$ but any kind of split system is in the thousands.
seems if you had one room in the house you caould put a few window units in, with air circulation you would really save.
when they die just buy a new one- some service calls on big systems are more than $300-------------
The Caribbean motel units are high mount on the wall with nice remote controls
Edited 4/25/2006 9:17 pm ET by edwardh1