I’m currently wiring a closet that I’ve remodeled and have replaced the original 1906 tube & knob wiring back to a junction box in the attic. I spliced into the t&k within the box, with romex clamps, heat shrink tubing over the cloth wire, everything I can think of to pass inspection.
When I connected the power up for a test, the outlet shows an open ground when tested. No suprise, as there is no ground wire in the t&k system.
My question is, can I ground the outlet on another circuit? I’m building a new bathroom right next to the closet that has it’s own 20 amp circuit back to the panel and it would be easy to tie into that box. Or do I have to take a new ground wire all the way back to the panel for the 15 amp closet receptacle?
Replies
Well what you want to do is OK if you want to replace non-grounding receptacles with grounding ones in EXISTING INSTALLATIONS. Either running a separate ground wire to the ground in another box or run it to the panel. This is the only place in the code and a separate wire is allowed to be used that is not in a cable, conduit or raceway.
However, this is a new installations.
However, code does allow existing K&T to be extended.
I am not a pro and maybe one will have some more experience with a case like this.
However, my guess is that it is strictly upto the inspector.
And I alos guess that unless NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to run a new circuit that this won't be allowed.
I installed a new whole house fan in K&T house. Fan requires a ground, which means a whole new run back to grounded sub-panel. A long as I was in the attic, I thought I would ground the bathroom circuit. Very helpful city inspector says grounds may not be shared. So I pulled a second line of NM.
New mechanical equipment ground (the green or bare copper), if I remember correctly what the NEC calls it must be protected in raceway or conduit. You can't just pull a single THHN wire. As it turns out, the sheathing of standard NM-B qualifies as protection. Yes, the hot and common in the new strand do nothing.
I'm alittle confused with the other answers. But could you run 12-3 with ground to your new bathroom and use the extra wire as a ground? Or course you'd have to paint the red wire green.
I don't think the 12-3 would work - not sure what a 3 wire would do. Maybe a 12-2 over to the bathroom circuit and then abandon the black & white wires, using only the ground wire. Hate to waste the romex...My original thought was to run a green #10 wire back to the panel or over to the adjacent circuit. But it sounds from the discussion here that an unsheathed wire is not kosher.on edit - just figured out your 12-3 idea. Run the 12-3 from panel to bathroom. Sorry for the slow response.The bathroom circuit is already wired, so I don't want to pull another 75' of wire down to the panel. Thanks for the idea.
Edited 5/15/2005 5:46 pm ET by greenarch
I concur with Bill Hartman's post. As long as they both [closet k + t and bathroom] go back to the same panel.
~Peter
If you are in the remodeling process why would one not upgrade Knob and tube wiring first?
Do you live close to a fire dept? Own stock in fire ext. company? Enjoy seeing hours of hard work go up in smoke?
Another fine example of deck chair design on the Titanic.
I don't know what you'd be using a closet outlet for, since I've none in my own closets and have never had one in closets before (not planning to habitat someone in there are you?), but a GFCI can provide protection if that's what you wanted from the grounding.
The receptacle in the closet is by a door and is for the convenience of plugging in a vaccuum cleaner. I guess I should have told you it's a walk-in dressing closet. Sorry.To upgrade the t&k wiring would be an incredible project, and something I have neither the time nor the patience to do. I'd just as soon let the sleeping wires lie where they are.Thanks for all your advice.
Hi greenarch
"I'm building a bathroom right next to the closet that has it's own 20 amp circuit and it would be easy to tie into that box....
If it's as easy as you say to run a ground wire from your bathroom to your closet, why not just run a piece of 12-2 wire instead and put your closet on the circuit with your bathroom. Eliminate the splice job you did in the attic at the junction box...just pull the romex from the knob&tube and splice the K&T back together again.
Option 2...remove closet receptacle and simply replace with a GFCI and no more worries.
For the record you are right...replacing K&T is a big hassle. And truthfully, if left undisturbed, it isn't all that bad as people think. I eliminated practically all of my K&T by changing the first floor wiring via the basement, and the 2nd floor wiring via the attic....but I still have a few things K&T wired to this day.
Davo
"If it's as easy as you say to run a ground wire from your bathroom to your closet, why not just run a piece of 12-2 wire instead and put your closet on the circuit with your bathroom."Not allowed under current codes. Unless he has more than one circuit to the bathroom. The 20 amp bathroom circuit can be used to power only the receptacles in one or more bathrooms, or can be used the receptacles, lights, and fan in the one bathroom."Option 2...remove closet receptacle and simply replace with a GFCI and no more worries."Again not to code. This is a new installation and needs a ground, period.However, either is safe and for all practical purpose servicable (I assume that it would be very rare that the vaccum is being used while the hair dryer it being used).