this is probably a redundant question and it gets complacated. to make a long story short. i’ve been working for these people for some time now the pay is low but me and my family make due. the homeowners are nice people and have become good friends.and thats were it all went wrong.now there taking every advantage of me.my question is how to get out of it with out hurting any feelings and still maintaining a much needed reference ( i done a lot of work for these people). any responce will be much appreciated. thank you.
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add, please explain this a little more. What is the relationship you have. Are these homeowners a contractor you work for? Or, are they homeowners you are doing carpentry work for. If so, you are not an indentured servant. Finish what your doing, advise them you've got work elsewhere and move on. You could end up being that guy you can really take advantage of. That type of recommendation you don't need. Best of luck by the way.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
first off thanks.they are homeowners who hire out for workers they own a lot of land and are concidered agricultural because this is farm land and while i cant see any animals but dogs,cats and three horses they still get tax exemptions because their a farm.i started working for them in october of last year. worked untill april and started back in august after i got married (yes they came to the wedding and then had the nerve to call me on our honeymoon just so they could move a trailer that was attached to their house acrossed the road so the honeymoone got cut a little short)sence then i've busted my @$$ for them some times working over 40 hours some times working under 25 (with no other job to fall back on) i work hard and in the short time i've been in this buisness not only learned a lot but erned the respect of craftsmen who have been doing this for 40 years.they pay me 8.50 and hour and the lead carpenter they had once hired pays me 10$ once again i need this refrence. and i'm sorry i'm being such a cry baby.thank you
You're not being seen as crying. I'm just trying to understand what's tieing you to them, other than the fear of leaving. Bothering you on your honeymoon was a bad deal. How many more you can take I don't know. I would think depending on where you're located, you should be able to find some steady employ if you know your stuff and you show up. We're not going to tell you what to do with your life, but these discussions might give you something to think about. Best of luck buddy.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
They're definitely taking advantage of you. Like Calvin said, as much as you need the reference, the reference may not do you a whole lot of good. Have you considered trying to get on a crew instead of doing your own thing? The reference thing may not be as much of an issue that way. Just explain to them that you've gotten an offer for other work that pays more.
well i guess i should have wrote a book. ha ha. i live in new york. unemployment capital.so work is tough to find.my wife is unemployed looking for work and unemployment benifets have run out 3 months ago.we have two kids grade school age.so i have to take what i have to take.i'm just the type of man who when he knows hes done a good job and worked hard to do it,the benefit of a good referal is important. i just dont know how much longer i can take it with these people. I've worked for two construction companies, a temp agency in a industrial position,as a subcontractor,and survived as an independant, but these people for some reason seem to have me by the boys( if you know what i mean) i've bent over backwards for these folks and when i asked for a raise got laughed at.i've done a lot in my short career but the work i've dont for them is some of the best i have ever done. so in just quiting i would be throwing away a real good work reference,and good friends.guess becoming friends with employers is'nt always a good idea. i have a framing job starting this week and hopefully i can just sneek away( this is as a subcontract through a diffrent employer) and i have some other possibilites but at the same time still feel some loyality to the farm folks for keeping me working when there was'nt any. i know i'm being imposible.damned if i do damned if i dont.of all the things that could go wrong in this buisiness this has got me stumped.i appreciate all of your help and hope this gives you some more info on my situation.
Your having seperation anxiaty (sp?) It's tough to leave a job that's steady. Lot's of people have done it and been highly succesful. My present employer for example. My father also did it with four mouths to feed and one on the way. And they both did it during the worst of economic times. They shared one thing though they were willing to work themselves to death to survive and it paid off. You can do it.
Yeah, what Gunner said.
Plus, you are concentrating on a tree, and ignoring the forest.
You have a lot of life ahead of you. You will work on many different projects. You will work for many different people.
You have let these people take the position of benefactors or parents in your life. It is time to give it up and move on. You WILL get paid better somewhere else. Eventualy. And you are worth it. Just continue to be worth it, whether you get the pay right away or not. Don't continue to let people take advantage of you. And from that combination will eventualy come the pay that you deserve.
Staying in the position that you are, will do nothing more than keep you a slave to the wages. You need to stand on your own feet. Whether working for yourself, or for someone else, decide what you are worth, and keep pushing for it.
What you get paid, directly affects your family. When they laugh in your face about a raise, they are laughing in the face of your wife and children. When they deny you enough of a wage to live on, they are denying any real quality of life to your family as well.
The bottom line is that they are not just disrespecting you, they are disrespecting your whole family. You can continue to be scared to let go of those apron strings, and conntinue to let your family be affected as it is. Or you can put aside your fears of losing the 'reference', and go somewhere where you can earn a bit more.
Stop letting life happen to you. Make life happen the way you want it to be.Cut me some slack here
Quittin' Time
As a apresent of 3 young children I can understand how you feel. But you have to think of your future and theirs. If you stay where your at in the "comfort zone" you'll never advance. Even if you have to relocate I think it would be worth it to you to seel employment else where . Until you decide to leave what is preventing you from doing other work on the side to develope the client base. Once you get the client base you'll have the referances and will not need theirs. Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Add, these people are NOT your friends. I'd bet your chances of a "good reference" from them are zero.
Get the hell out of there and find a real job. It's not going to get any better there, just go. Joe H
Add it really does sound to me like you are being taken advantage of. They
mey genuinly not think of it as such and may even think they are doing you a
favor but believe me they aren't. I think maybe you should get out of that area
entirely. When you say "i live in new york. unemployment
capital.so work is tough to find." I find that hard to even fathom.
That may be true for a rural agricultural region but for where I am (Westchester
County) the opposite is true even in spite of the enconmic cooling off of this
last year. While the increase in the cost of livng for you to move from wherever
you are to Westchester might prove prohibitive you hould still consider relocating.
Putnam and Dutchess county just to the north. Thing there are still booming
and very active and the cost of living there is a lot closer to what you are
used to and both those regions are close enough to both Westchester and Fairfield
County CT that you can make the trip down here to work in this "higher
wage" region with relative difficulty if you should so choose.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Get out of that job quick,they are not doing you any favors.Just because someone hires you to do work doesn't mean they are doing you a favor.It means they need work done and they hired you.With friends like this you don't need enemies.I think they are masking the fact that they are only willing to pay crumb by making like they are your friends,because they know you will buy that line so they will continue to reel you in on that.It's a terrible situation you are in ,I've been in similar ones and I feel for you.Consider what the guy from Westchester said;I'm from Long Island and it is going good down here and I've heard it's good upstate.You should consider reading books on selling{only because I've done it and it helped me and you remind me of myself aliittle bit-I was to much of a nice guy instead of being a business man}and not the low ball techniques-the book that really helped me was "Selling at prices higher than your competitors" I can't remember the author but you might find it at Book finder price lists on the web.Good luck.
Being friendly, and being a friend are sometimes two different things.
I can be friendly with you, and take advantage of you. But I can't take advantage of you and truly be your friend.
Cut me some slack here
Quittin' Time
add, your wife wouldn't be named afra , would she ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Jerald . Thats what I was hoping some one would say to him. To give him an area to consider.
Add, your situation would be almost the same where I live , except you might find an employer that would be giving you training for that wage. [with raises ] That should be happening. You mentioned framing. I dont really know what you are trained to do, but at that wage, any where in the US its starting salary ! The factories in this small town pay 10.00 for people that will work. [plus benifits] The unions will pay much more even in Arkansas. I believe there would be contractors , or unions that would be willing to give you training for a better wage than that . You arent advancing where you are , and it doesnt seem you will. Everyone feels for you and is trying to help you in this thread . So am I. Here it is ;
You now have the responsibility of a family . They come first , not your friends. Plus, whats already been said. Its time to make plans to "walk on". But please do not quit with out another job lined up. Maybe you could work part time for them if thats where its at .
When I was young and sending a wife to college , I traveled to make it . I stayed in less than accomadating conditions to get my pay where it needed to be . I also got training with a better wage. [this is just an idea as Jerald gave you already]
Walk on , and good luck to you,
Tim Mooney
Hey Add I also just checked on salary.com
for wage information regarding Dutchess county and it said
They describe the Carpenter I position level as:
That's approximately $13.21 per hour for a entry level carpentry job at 2000mhr year which is an improvement
and depending on what your skill levels and willingness to learn really are
you could possibly even do better than that. Just where do you put yourself
on the skill and experience maps? You might also want to check out the salary.com
site for wage information in you area to see where you fall. They also have
job listings now too it seems.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Jerald , youve said it again . Im with you. My thoughts exactly. Thanks for looking up the information and posting it.
TO ALL;
I feel good about being a part of some solid good people in this thread . Ive seen your hearts before , and Im seeing the same now. Thats why I posted; " We are a better bunch now ". I was there before , and I like the people better now . Just my opinion .
Tim Mooney
Add,
Been there…..done that.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with getting attached to clients, but when you’re questioning what’s going on………it’s an indication that something is wrong …..and you realize that it is. Listen to your gut.
Sometimes folks will realize that they’ve managed to “bond” with you and then either intentionally or unconsciously, they start to take advantage of that. This can’t continue unless you’re cooperating. If you’re a “nice guy”, you’re more apt to go along with their desires. I’ve done that. But the time comes when it can’t go on any longer.
I think Gunner may have hit it first. I, too, think you’re having separation anxiety. I’ve done that, too. But the fact of the matter is, I think you’re about to cut the umbilical cord and that’s why you’re here now; looking for support. And that’s okay. We all have anxious moments when we’re about to do something that involves the unknown.
Sounds to me like you know it’s time to wean them and yourself from the daily feeding. It’s always best when things reach the point you’re describing, to find a way and the words that will allow you to part company on good terms rather than let it continue until you go off on them. Leave on good terms and you can always return to do more work for them in the future on good terms………….. and they’ll likely call sometime. Wait too long………..and things can get ugly. They don’t want that and neither do you.
DW is a chef by trade. As such she has worked in many kitchens for many differrent places. She has always said that if the boss is unwilling to give you a raise it is a clear indication by him/her that your services are nolonger considered valuable and it is time to move on.
Add,
I think all us old time builders have been there. Gotten taken serious advantage of. A compliment I know for me.back then went far.....maybe too far. I started to work for these real wealthy Iranians in my beginning days and was seriously taken advantage of....they kept me "hostage" by passing around from one family memeber to another and never letting me get any other gigs. Was a "comfort zone" for me in a way......lots of stories around that but to make a long story short.....I finally "got it" and escaped a little shaken. As I look back I tell myself that I really learned a lot within all the tremendous undertakings I did for them that I probably wouldnt have had the opportunity to ever do such as (these were REAL big wealthy homes over 3 mil in Kings Point Long Island NY)......Renovated rooms by tearing interior walls down where there were huge plaster moldings....I had to learn how to recreate them as they couldnt be bought.......I learned plumbing.....etc etc etc....One of the best things I learned was how to deal with customers proffesionally or get taken advantage of.....I learned from the hardest clientle on earth.....they use to have me in tears.....What I'm saying all in all is........I LEARNED! I had no computer or anyone to ask..you DO! Think it through...lots of great advice here...youre far from a cry baby....I know you'll do really well..I really do.
Be well
Namaste
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm with Jerrald Hayes and others in saying that you're underpaid...........Unless that's all you're worth. (which we really don't know)
I live in a small agricultural town also, and $8.50 an hour is easily attainable flipping burgers.
My first thought is to say that you need to have a frank discussion with your employers. Tell them (politely) what you think, and what sort of future you're looking for.
Take some side work if you're hurting for money. Flip burgers, work at a convience store, or whatever it takes to get by. But don't sit around typing a bunch of stuff to strangers on the internet and expect your situation to change by itself.
Beauty is only skin deep. But ugly goes all the way to the bone.
wow! i never thought i would get this many great responses. and i thank all you folks for taking the time to write me about this problem. to fill you all in on the current developments i have decided not to return to these people.as many of you folks have wrote they are preventing me from progressing in my field.this is'nt helping me or my family. and i know i can learn more about this trade working for someone else,to me this is important. to my family it's best that they see me come home tired and satisfied that i had a good day at work rather than to come home tired and angry.i can get other work.and so i will.what really sucks is that things have to be this way. but for the betterment of everybody involved i think it is best.i can see that befor long the work would have suffered and i would have lost a reference anyways.so thats that. again i thank you all.
Glad to see your thinking Add. If you ever do decide to take the leap and head towards this part of NY you should let me know. Godspeed.
"Architecture is the
handwriting of Man." - Bernard
Maybeck.
Congratulations!
What you have just experienced is called a paradigam shift.
Change your thinking and you change your life!!!!!!!
I can see it in the tenor of your writing. Confidence! Hope!
These guys have helped but they just uncover what is already there within you. They can strip a guy to the bone if he is shallow.
You'll do to ride the river with.Excellence is its own reward!
Im glad you reached a decision and have the support of your family. I wish you the best and keep us informed as to whats happening and continue to join us here.
Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"