I am building a multi level deck with a large portion of it at ground level. The site is near Boston. What kind of foundation/footings would you recommend. Poured footings are my last choice because the deck is 20×20 and will need several 4′ deep (lots of concrete to mix by hand (no truck access)).
If a base of crushed stone is the recomendation how deep? what should the frame rest on. The deck will be one step above the grass with no railing.
Thanks in advance
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Replies
A few thoughts-
1. Just let that lower portion of the deck "float" on the ground. I think you can buy precast deck footers, or just make your own.
2. However...1 step off the ground in Boston...that deck is going to look good for about 30 minutes. It's going to spend most of the winter buried under snow and wet. I'd recommend you make that portion and stone / brick / stamped concrete / acid washed concrete patio. Yep, it's gonna cost more and take longer, but you won't be out there messing around with it all the time. If you wanted something one step up from the lawn, you could just build a nice border and do all your stone dust backfilling and tamping to get a slightly raised patio. Now that would look really sharp, done correctly.
Just some thoughts.
MERC
I`m considering adding a "temporary" ground level (one step up) deck to my home. I`m planning a pool in the not too distant future and would like to incorporate a stone patio....until I have the funds for such I`m planned on building the deck for BBQs and such.
I won`t be filing this thus am not concerned with codes, (DONT TELL SOFTURN!) but I plan on using those post spikes they sell at the big box store. (sketch below)....I`m going to space them accordingly and let the box beams into the posts.
As I said, I have no idea whether this will meet code in yer neck-o-da-woods....but thats my plan.
View Image
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I plan on using those post spikes they sell at the big box store
Be careful of sticker shock, I've seen those go from $11 to nigh unto $26 each. Check for alternate sources if you can. They make a 36" and a 48", which actually will get you below some mandated frost depths. If the ground is hard (or, heaven forbid, rocky), they can be a bear to drive. A "stump" bit of 4x4 can be very handy (one you can mush up the end with with the big sledge). A stump bit of landscape timber will do in a pinch, but it is a wobbly fit. It's also not a bad idea to mentally prepare yourself for a bit of "slippage" in the column locations (the spike is going to follow where it is driven, not necessarily where it is "supposed" to go).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I had that same idea once for a temp job. Don't waste the time. Those are only OK for mailboxes or signs
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A new Home Depot with a rental center opened near my home. They rent two man augers for about $65 per day. That should make relatively quick work of the digging part. If I can get the concrete guys to stick around while I wheel barrow the cement that will save us the trouble of mixing by hand.
After this weekend I think this will be less work. I excavated a 14'x18' x1' deep area to fill with crushed stone as a base for a new shed. That was alot of work.
Ken,
I've built many decks and recall a "one step up" cedar deck. This one was 20' X35' with a gazebo end. I bid far too low on it. It was a beast. In minnesota we need 42" frost footings and I sunk "27" of them. Still level and strong 12 years later.
If your deck is only supporting live weight and is not connected to the house or the upper decks, put it on precast concrete footings. Make sure each footing is over sand/gravel and well compacted. Another approach is to bury 6X6 green treated beams also in gravel/sand. You can nail and strap right to these to your joist. To get the one step you might need 4 rows of these if using 2X6 joists. Also found floating decks last better if the decking is diagonally layed and use 2X material.
I'm not guarenteeing it will look as good in 12 years as one on proper footings. Would you still consider this approach if the deck was 8' off the ground? Your call.
Edited 6/18/2004 3:46 pm ET by hammer-n
Ken,
I'm just outside of Boston myself. Not sure if you're pulling permits for this or not, but if you are, you'll never pass inspection without the footers. 20X20 isn't bad at all. Go rent an auger and a post hole digger at HD and hammer 'em out....you're talking what, 8-10 footings? No sweat, should take you and a helper about 3/4 of day tops to dig as long as the place isn't a boneyard full 'o potatoes.
Like I said, I don't know what town your in, but I work out of Metrowest, (Framingham, Acton, Natick, Holliston, Hopkinton, Wayland, Weston, Wellesley etc). All inspectors for those towns will want to come out and look at your holes before you pour.
FWIW, in April my helper and I dug ten 40"X10" footings by 2pm. Inspectors looked at them at about 2:30 and we had them filled by 6pm and mixed by hand. It was a long hard day, but nothing too crazy. That also included removing four existing footers at about 36" each.
Build it right, build it once. The frost around here will do horrifying things to you pretty new deck. Those Home Depot precast jobs are a joke and won't fly.
I am a joe homeowner as one of my building officials described me once but I always pull permits. I thought I wouldn't need piers for this application but if that is what they require than that is what we will do I guess. Thanks for the reply's -
As so often happens, I'm with Dieselpig on this one. If you want to do it right, concrete piers to 48" is the way to go. Why risk wasting all those materials and that labor?
I'm very impressed with his digging ability, though! I'm just starting a deck with screen room that calls for 13 holes. With the compacted sand, silt, clay and rocks it takes me about 2 hours per hole to get to a true 48" with a nice flat 14-16" diameter bottom as a bearing surface. But then, my back ain't what it used to be. Luckily, I found a nice young helper that seems to be doing well and has made the job much less punishing.
As for the concrete, rent an electric mixer. I have a truckload of sand/stone mix delivered and mix my own concrete right at the holes. I don't mess around with all those Quickcrete bags.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
here's a ground level deck... the posts supporting the beams are on footings dug to 40" below finished grade... one bag of Quickcrete in each footing..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
here's the high end of the deck..
and a winter view...
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Nice work, Mike. And, I don't see the thing heaving under all that snow.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
ike
Thank you very much for the photos. Just to clarify - you poured 40" piers and then laid 6x6 PT across them to support the deck joists? If true how do you get the posts perfectly aligned so that you can simply lay the 6x6's across them and expect them to be level. Obviously the exact individual heigh of each pier is not that important if you are placing a posts on top because the post can be cut to the appropriate height. Any tips on this would be appreciated. Also - how do you attach them to the footings or are they simply resting on them?
Thanks again - gotta love the internet!
One more question - do you recommend the Big foot style footings to speed the pour up (advantage is that you can pour the footing and the pier at the same time)?
klaw..
no we dig a hole so the bottom is at least 40 below finish grade... sometimes with an auger... usually with a posthole digger..
then we mix a bag of Quickcrete (80 lb.) stiff.. dump it in the hole and level it.. the top of the crete might be 30" down.... next day we set PT 4x4 posts on the footing ... leave them a little long... get them aligned with batter boards and string lines..
then we cut the post tops off to support the beams... tie the beams to the posts with galv. connectors...
i think there were about 20 posts on the deck in the picturesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore