does anyone know how to interlock outside walls to a stick framed gable wall,which will have a birdsmouth and a overhang.the gable wall level cut and the outside walls will be the same height. or do you just triple the studs on each side of the gable,so i would be able to have enough with to nail the outside walls to.any professional advise.
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Yes that will work, and overlap the doubled top plate.
Didn't you ask this a few weeks ago?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
yes i did ask this question 3 weeks ago,and the best answer i got was,there are 50 ways to do it.im sorry for not being specific.but what i want to do is add a second level on a ranch home that i own and the home is on the e.coast.inthe book of framing roofs by fhb.on pg 105,where it shows the dormer,i was wondering if thats how you frame a regular gable wall for the 24ft spann.its not going to be a cath ceiling.but there will be a window in the gable wall.my major concern is if that is the same way to frame it,where the top plate is beveled where it meets the birdsmouth.how do you get a 8-9 ft. wall with a double top plate to fit inside the birdsmouth of the gable wall once it is braced,and the best way to nail this section and secure them together.simetimes i drive by a house that someone is constructing a second level and i see the gable walls going up and then the ridge set in place and the center rafter nailed.i know most framers do it this way. but most books don't tell you how these corners connect.thanks for any info.and i hope i explained it a little better,because idon't know any better way to explaine it. if you have any ideas i will greatful. thanks.or i you know someone who has any good ideas please let me know.
Edited 12/26/2007 12:08 pm ET by T3
Sorry Bub, I still have no clue about what you are asking.
Maybe someone else can get ya rolling along. Ya lost me.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
thanks anyway.
Your situation is not clear.I think you are saying that you have a flat ceiling. I also think you are saying that the gable wall is standing first and the side walls need to be tied into it. If your gable wall top plates are the same height as your side wall top plates, the best way to make that connection is with your backing plate.Then, to satisfy code (because code can't understand that the backer plate ties things togehter) add a simpson mending plate. They seel them at most hardware/lumberyards. I think the plate needs 4 nails per wall to meet code in MI. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
yep thats the way i want to do it ,but im not to familar what the backing plate is and how to connect it to the corners.(gablewalls-sidewalls.
If it's to confusing, don't frame the gable wall with the rafters on it already. Frame all your walls and lap all your top plates. After the walls are up put your rafters on.If you want to frame it the way you describe with the gable having a beveled plate, then you can't lap the top plate into it. Use a strap or plate. The top lap not over lapping the gable wall isn't going to make your house fall down.Joe Carola
i want to frame the gable wall as 1 part,so i guess the outside walls will still rest under the seat cut.to do this would i have to frame the outside walls with 1 top plate ,soi could fit the walls into the gables,and then add the second top plates to the walls after the walls are up.is this the right way.and also what kind of strapping. also can i nail through the gable into walls plus the strapping or will it make it more weeker.thanks. any pics would be great.or a diagram.because im not quite understanding the backing part of what someone else was explaining.
i want to frame the gable wall as 1 part,so i guess the outside walls will still rest under the seat cut.to do this would i have to frame the outside walls with 1 top plate ,soi could fit the walls into the gables,and then add the second top plates to the walls after the walls are up.is this the right way.
No, it's not the right way in my eyes. If you want to frame it like that, use two top plates and keep the top plate even with the outside of the building and the top plate that's underneath that one, cut it 3-1/2" shorter. This allows you to nail your rafter into the top plate and then later you can slide your front and back wall top plate underneath it, therefore lapping the walls.
Also for your interior perpendicular walls, when you do your two top plates for the gable, leave out the 3-1/2" space where the interior walls will go so that you can lap those in later.
and also what kind of strapping. also can i nail through the gable into walls plus the strapping or will it make it more weeker.thanks. any pics would be great.or a diagram.because im not quite understanding the backing part of what someone else was explaining.
Are you talking about strapping underneath the ceiling joists later? If so, I don't strap because it's not required.
Joe Carola
Edited 12/26/2007 1:25 pm ET by Framer
framer how would you with your method connect the gable wall and the side walls.because i think my idea is not the coventional way if you don't mind explaining it to me or send me a quick diaghram.i would really appreceate it.the strapping i thought you were talking about wasto hold the to the side walls or i must of misunderstood.but anyway if your unable to do that quick diaghram,thanks for your input and have a happy new year and drive safe.take care friend.
If your gable end is 24' wide, you make sure that your top plate is 24'. Now the second plate under your top plate is cut back 3-1/2" in on both sides making that 23'5".
Now when you make your top plates for your front and back walls you keep the top plate back 3-1/2" shorter than the plate underneath. If your front and back wall for example is 4', then you make the bottom of your two top plates 40', and the top of the plate will be 3-1/2" shorter on each end making it 39' 5" so that you can slide the plate underneath.
Here's a drawing.Joe Carola
thanks for the pic thats exactly what i was looking for.YOU and alot of others always come through for me in this forum.i always go out of my way for alot of people.and it makes me feel great to know there are alot of people out there who would do the same for me and alot of others.thanks for the help.you really know who your friends are when your stuck without a clue.thanks again joe and friends.everyone have a safe and happy newyear.
Check out this article. You might have to join to view it .
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/view.pdf/debe9290143fec1d26705bdea9c1733a/www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/4772fb590006079027177f0000010539NAIL IT !!!
thanks i'll check it out.
You introduced a new parameter a couple of posts back.
You want to add a second story to your ranch, is that correct?
So, are you are planning platform framing above an existing structure, with a new gable wall in plane with the existing on one end and a sidewall/roof intersection on the other end?
Are you planning conventional roof framing or trusses?
im planning a conventional roof.iwant frame a gable wall on each end of the house,with bidsmouth and 8-9ft side walls the same height as the seat cut on the gable rafters.but i want to lift the gable walls with window openings up first. then i want to place the ridge in next.but my problem is how to connect a double top plate side wall to fit flush under the gable rafter seat cuts on the gable walls. also someone mentioned somekind of strapping for code,because of high winds out here.even if you know where i can purchase a book that shows some kind of pic or diaghram,just to give me a better understanding.no offence to anyone.thanks for any input.
I think you asked this a few weeks ago. Obviously, you didnt get your answers.
You have a much better chance at getting a good answer if you more clearly explain your problem.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=98184.1Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I thought I remembered the original request. I still don't know what the question is. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I read confusion on using a California corner or triple stud or double with blocks...throwing in the rafter and birdsmouth info just muddies the water.
I think he just wants to make a corner.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I think the question is regarding the connection between the gable end and the side wall at the top plates.
I assume this is a cathedral ceiling so you need a top plate on the gable end for a fireblock and place to attach drywall.
Obviously one cannot overlap plates due to the pitch, so just run the double top plate to the end of the sidewall. Cut the plate on the gable end to butt and nail through the bevel cut into the top plate of the side wall.
Wrap with plywood to hold the mess together in a massive earthquake. If there is a massive earthquake, pack up and leave town.
If he ballooned the gable, the last bearing rafter is the tie in to the bearingwall. If he studded and plated the same as the bearing walls, then it's a no-brainer.
I'm leaning towrds thinking he is unaware that the gable studs need to be notched for the rafter or set atop a plate and turned sideways.
Ougtta just slap bang a gable truss up and be done with it.
Right now it's the blind leading the blind.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
"If he ballooned the gable, the last bearing rafter is the tie in to the bearingwall."
Better put a metal strap on it.
Every rafter needs a hurricane tie.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I usually use two standard precut studs at the end of the rakewall with blocking between it. This way I know for sure that the rakewall will perfectly match the height of the intersecting walls.
Then I just nail a Simpson TP37 plate from wall to wall.
thanks nice pic,the first one came through but not the second one. thanks again.
your refering to blocking between the last two studs right. not that block under the seat cut.because i don't see any blocking between the last two studs,or is the shadow blocking my vision or is there a stud laid flat on the underside of the two studs.
I'm referring to the double blocking between the end corner stud and the first stud coming up to the underside of the rafter.
I can try and get a better picture if you want.
I drew this in Sketchup because it'll show it better than a picture at this point. If you don't have SU, get the viewer and then click through the scenes.
Tim
sorry i'm not able to open that message,but i have an idea of what your refering to.forgive me for asking for a second time,but my mind just is not with me lately.one of our dogs just passed away alittle over 2 mnths ago.are vet said we had to take him to a neurolagist,there was only one in are state,so we traveled quite aways everynight to visit him.they did mri and xrays after xrays and then surgery on a ruptured disc.i said why is his stomach swelled, they said it was gas.the surgeon said he would be wallking in 4-6 weeks with a little help.so we took him home that night and the next day he got up and walked around on his own for a whole day.that same day i built him a access ramp to make it easier for both of them.but since we brought him home,he was vometing every hour,they said it was probably the meds.he only walked for one day the 3d day he passed away in my hand.orthopsey said he passed away from internal bleeding. iguess thats why his stomach was swelled up.12000.00 later.the thing that got me mad was i called the surgeon the morning he was having trouble breathing and they said, theres nothing they could do ,call your vet.by the time i called our vet he passed away.in mid october in a rain storm im digging a 6x5ft hole with a rain coat,he was 155 lbs.lowered the cascet down into the hole,in the dark and rain with a flashlight.we bought a regular headstone withalmost 200 letters on it and his picture on it.and it wasnt easy especuly around the holidays.he was like my son.i made him a 4x4 cross thats the best me and my wife could do. she's the one who helped me lower and shovel the dirt and rocks into the hole that night.sorry to tell you my problems which is not even half of it.but i havent been focused to well.and alot of people in this forum are having trouble understanding me lately.thats part of why.i just didnt want to pss you off to for not understanding you the first time.i think isee what your saying, and thanks for the help.im just a man trying to make a life.have a safe and happy new year friend.stay safe.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things start to get better for you and your family.
I turned the views into pics and am attaching them to this email.
Edited 12/29/2007 10:20 pm ET by Timuhler
Edited 12/29/2007 10:23 pm ET by Timuhler
Let's try this again.
Nice job with SketchUp Tim. You are learning it well.That plate would be required in MI if we didn't lap the plate. We put them on but realistically, it's acutally useless because the plates that they are tied into on the gable don't meet the minimum code for plate lengths. Don't take that comment wrong though. I don't see anything structurally wrong with your framing technique. I dont really see any need for the doubled block/plate on the gable wall and I wouldn't do it. I'd save that one block and only insert one for draftstop purposes. You are showing a Cathedral style ceiling. The OP stated that he'd be having a flat ceiling. I mentioned that I'd use the backing plate to tie the two walls together in lieu of the lap or plate. Structurally, it is as strong or stronger than a lapped plate yet I could never get an inspector to understand that. So, we just automatically put the plates on. It's faster to do that than to go back on a red tag even if it doesn't make sense. I also have a much different philosophy regarding the placement of that gable rafter. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue,
In my mind the 4' sheet that connects the outside wall to the gable is enough of a connection. Never had an inspector comment either way.
I'd love to hear/read your philosophy on the gable wall though. I always seem to learn something from you, even if I disagree :-)
Certainly the 4' sheets will tie it together. In our situation, we don't lap the sheathing so we have to create some mechanical tie. I'm okay that the inspector looks for the connection. I'm just frustrated that they can't understand that the backing plate, which is the same size as the top plate, AND TOUCHING IT, will hold it together. They are all about the letter of the law and I am all about the spirit. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Heres the pics of how I would frame the gable if it had a cathedral ceiling. I wouldn't have angled cuts on the top of the studs...those were left over from your version. I also would put the blocks in for draftstopping as you have but didn't know how to draw the end one in. Notice that the last rafter will now work as a draftstop and prevent the stud cavities from sucking air out of the attic. It is also placed for drywall backing. Keep in mind that we also platform frame and tilt up the entire assembly like you do. We would tie those studs together with either the wall sheathing or the overhang components, depending on the structural needs. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,
I've avoided doing it that way fora couple of reasons, its almost idiot proof to use precut studs that match the intersecting walls on the outside of the rakewall.
And it is easy to teach the guys how to calculate common rafters, and cut a pair. Then we know the rakewall is the right height at the plates, and we know the rafters work.
We did a couple of frames last summer where we went a little crazy with rakewalls and its great because as the siders too, we can do the soffit detail on the walls and be done with them. here are the pics
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler/Lot36Muirkirk02
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler/Lot38Muirkirk
I had to re read your post five times to understand what your objection was. I was misunderstanding the term "precut" and was thinking that you used 92 5/8 or 104 5/8" studs....which weren't anywhere to be seen in the drawing or pics.One of the huge advantages to framing a gable as I am showing is the speed factor. The precutting of the studs is eliminated, which is probably the most time consuming thing about the wall. To eliminate the precutting ritual, we snap the top of the rafter lines on the deck giving us the form of the roof. Remember, everything starts with the heel which we need to know before we frame our fist wall. So, the calcs for the peak is very simple math. We mark the top of each heel and then the peak. Once those lines are snapped on the deck, we randomly drop studs and linial: one for each mark. We then cut all the tops so they don't extend beyond the top snapped line. Basically, we cut every stud without a tape or a mark. It just needs to be "not proud" of the snapped line. We then nail all the bottoms. Then, I normally locate one of the central studs and put it on the 16" layout. I then use it as my guide to move all the others into their proper layout. At this point they are still lose. Then, I decide whether I will run part of the overhang members to tie all the studs or sheath it first. Most often I sheath it. Once sheathed and papered, I install the overhang. This overhang is the structural component that will hold this gable together till it's stood up. After it's standing the interior rafter will be nailed tight to each stud to add another layer of structural integrity. I also study the big gable walls and install vertical and horizontal doubled members to insure that it will go up in a somewhat rigid fashion. For instance, on the big wall you have pictured, I probably would have run a double (or triple) top plate on top of 16' studs. I would have doubled alongside each window and tied to this doubled horizontal member. These interior structural members are usually not necessary and done for my benefit. I could send it up with the singles as you show, and later beef it up from the inside above the ceiling lines but I like to stiffen the entire assembly as easily and cheaply as I can because I understand the danger of raising these beasts. I also don't ballow frame any big gable like that if I'm going to have a lowered finish ceiling. I'd rather stand up a 9' wall, then swing the gable in with the crane later. We have several different solution for finishing the overhangs when we do it like that. Nice pics on your Picassa site. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue,
I hear you on your method and may try that out. We normally use 92 5/8" or 104 5/8" studs and if that is what the intersecting walls are, then that is what we use at the ends of the rakewall.
That's all I meant by precut studs.
On the wall in the Lot 36 folder, we used LVL studs. That wall lifted much more stiffly and when we sided it, it was dead flat. I'm really impressed by the difference. I think the cost was about double, but it looks so good sided that I think its worth it. Escpecially because in this picture http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/145616953.jpg we had to put the studs 12" oc and that wall ended up kind of wavy.
"We normally use 92 5/8" or 104 5/8" studs and if that is what the intersecting walls are, then that is what we use at the ends of the rakewall."Interestingly, I always give that thought first option, but then explore every other option regarding stud height. I've been known to build the base wall out of 7' studs and sometimes I've built them out of 10' studs. Basically, I never let the height of the side walls dicatate anything to me, other than a starting point of planning. Most often, when a change of wall heights is done on the gables, it is usually built to end up flush with the top of the second floor deck ply for various reasons. The wall you show in your picture looks like a wall that would flex considerably under the load of lifting. I know from experience that it will flex back but I doubt that I would have built that in one piece because of several factors. Of course, my comment is made without knowing anything about the final internal factors that affect your decisions regarding the procedures. I'd be interested to know why you decided that you wanted/needed to balloon frame this one. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Blue,
Are you referring to the one with the studs 12" oc? It was a two story room and yes it did flex. I'll post a couple more pics and you can see it.
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/145769843.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/145769833.jpg
http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/145769872.jpg
The room was two stories, then we finished it with rough sawn 4x10 doug fir beams every 3' or so and cardecking on top. So it was a two story great room, then we added the floor and added about 300sqft. Here is a picture http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/10043887/158124278.jpg I just realized I don't have any finished pics inside that house. I'll get some. The greatroom/family room turned out really cool. I'll get a shot of that because I think you'd like it.
Edited 12/31/2007 8:33 pm ET by Timuhler
Thats not an easy wall to raise with the forklift. Especially if you are trying to lift it with the bottom anchored. We eventually stopped anchoring them and just started lifting the entire thing into the air, then repositioning it.The flex isn't excessive that I can see. With the blocking, it will tend to open up slightly on the insides of every block and you probably had to force the wall back to straight, which wouldn't be much of a problem. Your method of hooking is different than mine. We never worked with a strap that long. We could weave several of them if we chose to but for the most part, we would have wrapped the top chords of the gable. I did notice that you put a strongback on the outside and I'm not sure I would have done that, nor am I sure what it is doing. That wall is so large that it will want to flex both ways, horizontally and vertically, so hooking it is a major decision. You did a great job on it and if you felt that you needed that extra strongback, I agree with you: it's better to add a few members and be safe than sorry. With your equipment, it's very easy to get up there and remove them. Indicently, I've raised a few like that in my younger days with wall jacks. I remember one that I needed four jacks on....I'm glad those days are over.Two obervations: Paper? Sheathing? Why not sheath the entire wall? Even though you insist on lapping the sheathing, it would be very easy to slide the wall 4" to the rear after you lay it out and hange the sheathing over. When you stand it, the forklift can easily lift the wall and your guys can set it and instantly nail that overhanging sheathing to tie the things together. It's actually very easy to "walk" that wall four inches using a 4' wrecking bar or a long pinch bar. Finally, I still do not understand what you gained by balloon framing this wall. I may be mis interpreting the picture but it looks like the house has a 9' first floor and your upper gable is buried in an attic or part of an upstairs. I'm all for framing large walls but only when absolutely necessary. They are too dangerous to build them "just because I can". What kind of siding went on this one? I am interested in seeing the finished pics. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'll get to your questions and get some more pics posted for you.
Also, and maybe this is a new thread I should start, I'd like to pick your brain about rigging. My only framing partner/buddy did the rigging on that wall and added the strongback.
Rigging is not my strong point.
Good, I'm interested in your answers if only to help you a bit. I know we don't always agree but you've always been supportive and respectful of my posts...probably because your daily life is framing as compared to remodeling and you probably can relate better to much of what I talk about. Rigging deserves a new thread, or at least further discussion here. It is critical when building large walls like you are doing. Rigging is so important, that I normally know how and where I'm going to rig a wall before I'm done laying it out. Sometimes the walls are complicated and I don't figure it all out till I'm done with the sticks but I ALWAYS plan for the rigging.edit: The rookies always build the entire wall, then ask me: "how am I doing to hook this?" Often, it's too late to hood it properly without damaging something. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 1/1/2008 7:16 pm by Jim_Allen
Tomorrow I hope to get time to get some pics together and start a new thread on rigging.
I don't always agree with you Blue, but I supsect some of that has to do with regional differences and also the medium we communicate through.
I'm pretty sure if I was framing with you, I'd frame like you. I spent some time today with some guys who've been in the trades for a long time because we are going to remodel the building we use locally for religious services. I'm telling you, I'm happiest when I'm with guys who are more experienced than me. There is so much to learn from someone who has 30 years experience doing something I love and they love.
I've never had the experience of working with a lot of different experienced guys, so I'll always take what I can get, when I can get it. I don't know if you read JLC, but I had the chance to spend some time with many of the guys who demonstrate at JLC LIVE and I'm like that 8 year old kid who gets to hang with the teenagers for the afternoon :-)
I don't read JLC. I don't like the format there, besides, I spend too much time here already and most of what is there is here. I suspect disagreements are normal and related to the processes and techniques that we all are subject to. I would be bored to tears if I just talked about what we did if we all did it all the same. I can get that conversation every day with Frank.You are wise indeed to capitalize on the experience of others, even if they have less experience than you. It's interesting that you haven't had the pleasure of working with many old codgers but even if you did, you might find out that they don't talk much about what they know. As a group, they are tight lipped. It's no big surprise though because look how much grief we all take in here when we disclose how we do something. Most folks don't want to have to defend every one of their practices or ideas especially when the challengers start the personal attacks and name calling. A simple exchange of ideas turns into a full fledged ego battle in a few short posts. I know I've taken a lot of grief about things I know about. I post ideas of things I have done, but really don't care if anyone likes or uses the ideas or does it their way. I share: they decide...it's a simple proposition. I don't need to take grief about it. Unfortunately, there are lots of great posters that have left this site because of these same sentiments. That thought occurs in the real world too. The old guys just keep their knowledge to themselves because they don't like arguing with the young whippersnappers. The last time I was walking one of our jobs I encountered one of these young (30's) know it alls. In an instant, I figured out that he would not be interested in knowing what I know. I've met hundreds, maybe thousands of carpenters like him. They don't take my input and blend it with theirs: they already know enough and don't need anything from me. I'm fine with that but it also tends to make me more cautious about sharing ANYTHING. I had the luxury of starting on a crew with five union trained journeymen and a very tough demanding boss. I started with a very good basic foundation and added my own blend of systems over the few decades that I spent in the field. Even today, I wold still experiment with different processes and techniques but do so with a wide variety of experience behind me. I have seen guys approach me with "new" ideas that I rejected in the 80's for better processes. Anyways, don't fret the lack of old guys around you. You are doing fine and if you trust your instincts while challenging yourself a bit and pushing the envelope a bit, you'll accomplish all that you need to. Sponge on! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Edited 1/2/2008 8:07 am by Jim_Allen
Blue,
I suspect you are right about the old codgers being tightlipped in part because they get sick of arguing. I totally understand what that is about.
I have one young guy I work with who argues aesthetics when we side. Its irritating because I read all the mags I can get my hands on, attend classes, pay attention to the pictures posted here and at JLC. I'm not a designer, but I've done this stuff before, then a guy who will not spend any time learning on their own wants to argue or present a different opinion, which is good, but when he's told that what he proposed will look odd, he takes it personally.
Thats just the nature of young people, I was that way and still am, but working on it :-)
I worked with one framer who was good and a patient teacher. When I'd come out after school in the summer, I worked with a couple of other framers, but not much. He taught me how to layout, and all the principles to be a good framer, but not any production techniques at all. I had to learn that through books, articles and the forums.
The framer who taught me measured in all his rafters and stringlined everything. He wanted to part of the calculator or the math, even though it was simple math.
He preferred to learn through his experience. I prefer to learn as much as I can through my experience, but better yet, through everyone elses.
I figure that what seperates us from a troop of chimps, is that humans can learn and apply the collective experience and then improve on it. That's what I love about the forums.
It is a shame that disagreements always turn into chest pounding.
What I'd really like to do is go back east and work with a timber framer who posts at JLC. He teaches for the Timber Framer's Guild and I believe is union trained in the 70's but man oh man is this guy good. He is something else. I bet a month of working with him would be better than 10 years on my own.
"I have one young guy I work with who argues aesthetics when we side."Speaking of aesthetics: what is your philosophy? I prefer to stagger the joints in a random patter. It takes slightly more time but that is what "I" prefer and I've never had anyone request anything different. Most of the stuff here is awful. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Stagger the joints in what? Lap siding? I stagger 32"oc or random depending on scrap.
Yes, lap siding.I stagger them as far as I can and never want a joint within a couple of feet on courses above or below. I never want to see any joint aligned anywhere vertically, even if there are many course separating it. I don't have scrap: every piece is a starter or a finisher or a saver. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
i checked out your pics, also nice.and you guys being very tallented at what all of you do.i was wondering it may sound a little stupid.but do you guys do all those drawing by free hand. i told you it would sound a little stupid. thanks for all your input.
Edited 1/4/2008 10:31 am ET by T3
tim i recieved tour pics, sorry if i forgot to mention i do want a flat cieling,but if those pics are for a cath cieling,it adds more knowledge for me in the future.the only thing with the pics is,i am only able to recieve the center of the pics.the fhb heading takes up most of my screen.i clicked the little box to maximize it,still the same.i don't know,i guess i just have a scrd up computer.my top bar where it has file,edit,mail and fhb heading.im not a computer wiz.but anyways framer did send me a pic on flat ceiling gable wall,which shows how to overlap the corners.but im open to anyother pics.because i like to see different ideas.the more you know the better off you are.atleast for me anyways.also i don't know if you read my prev posting,but this is for a second level add on. the house is a 1970s made 2x6 joists and 2x6 rafters with the beam in the basement made up of 4 planks 3 of which say 4900lbs and they are 1-1/2 and the forth is a true 2in thick.not sure the height of the beam,as far as 2x8 or 2x10 or whatever it is but im sure i'll have to add on to some were on there and the first floor beam.which i'll have to do some research on that,because i have no idea.the second level will be another load.especualy because i want to use probably 2x10s or 2x8.probably better off with 2x10s for live load sake.i know a little bit about framing but it's always good to know more.because the more you know the safer youll be.even if you fall on your a$$ you will have a little extra padding in your back pocket to help break your fall.right now were expecting some snow tonight or the next day.some plowing will make me a little extra money.hey almost forgot thanks for your sympathy and input on everything.
Sorry about the loss of your dog--that is very difficult to go through, but especially in the situation you described.
On to more mundane matters--it would help us to read your posts if you put some spaces between the continuous lines of text--just hit the return key every so often. I just wanted to say it before someone perhaps less tactful than I said it! I used to work at a job wher I had to do lots of reports and so on, so the mechanics of sending text comes fairly easy to me, but I know there are lots of people who aren't as familiar with writing using computers.
I would have sent this privately as email, but figured you might just delete it as spam, since you don't know me.
Anyway, hope your life gets more happiness into it soon!
that's the way i used to always do it, but some people would complaine about it, saying my words should be closer and so now i just get a little carried a way and just type, if you know what i mean. and the ones that used to complaine, were the ones who wrote worst than me. and as far as the spam thing, i would have read your e-mail. thanks for your sypathy and your input. and one more thing, the negative people in this forum are sometimes better off not saying anything. but also there are a lot of possitive people in this forum. please don't take any of this personal.