Hi all,
My old bathroom remodeling job is having paint problems. To make less to read, here’s what I did in outline form:
– 1930 bungalow with plaster on blue-board
– Chipped off old tile glued on with organic mastic
– Sanded the exposed paint layer, which is the first over the plaster. More on this later.
– Applied a skim coat of DuraBond setting joint compound over most of it.
– Waited several years. Heck, there’s another bathroom, what’s the problem?
– Primed with Ben Moore Fresh Start latex
– Top coat with Ben Moore Ben
The paint bubbled in several places. The layer beneath is the first layer of paint over the plaster, so it is the DuraBond that separated from that paint layer. I scraped out the bubbles and scrapped radially out from the center. Some popped off in 1 square inch sheets. I now have a 2′ x 1′ bare spot. Enough time passed that I wondered if I really did sand the old paint layer, but since that is what I ordinarily would do in such cases, and since I could see fine, though sparse, scratches in the paint when viewed through a loupe, I would say that I did. That layer is not chalky, as in it leaves nothing on fingers wiped over it, nor anything on tape stuck and pulled from it.
So what now? Do I stick tape to all of it and pull anything that can be removed, or will that just damage what I’ve got? Some of it seems well bonded. Do I re-sand the bare spots, then prime with BIN before using DuraBond to even it out?
Replies
Paint bubbles?
Moisture moving out from an area will cause paint to lose adhesion and bubble and peel.
Is this on a ceiling? If so, near an exhaust fan?
On a wall, at a place where there might not be insulation or in the case of an interior wall, near a heat source (ductwork) or other that would lead to a basement (clothes chute, electric runs, ?)?
Was there any spray used in the area (deod, hairspray, stink muffler)?
Was the area where there could have been a bare spot in the orig. paint layer?
No, this is on the interior walls, during renovation. There's not even plumbing in there yet. The bubbles appeared 2 days after it was painted. I spot primed the exterior wall and some of the interior wall with BIN, and spots of the interior wall bubbled while I was painting it. There is no moisture problem. the house is cool, about 55F, but far from condensing since the outside dew point has been in the 30's. Over-spray is probably not a problem as so much prep has been done on the surface prior to the DuraBond layer. I don't know what you're asking about the bare spot.
prairie
I asked meaning that there might be a problem with the plaster/durabond connection if the durabond wasn't over a previously painted surface in that location.
I've used plasterweld b/4 skimming with durabond over older plaster. On '30's houses (a couple) I have experience paint checking/peeling/bubbling in odd spots where no where else in the room did. One did have a bath on the other side of the wall and I thought perhaps moisture was migrating. Bins did not adhere, something was odd.
What did work after a couple tries, was "priming" with plasterweld.
Not very scientific but then that's what alot of remodeling is, as bad as that may seem. Not every situation is figured out b/4hand in a lab.
You mention plaster over bluebd? How old was the original surface?
And how long did you let consecutive coats of durabond dry out?
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Also, by bubbles do you mean tiny pock holes in the durabond or small beads of bubble in the paint ? What size were the bubbles?
I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding if the paint peeled off or the durabond (original hard durabond, not easysand?)
Thanks for the reply calvin. And no worries about asking for clarification. It can be hard to get a mental picture through words.
The bubbles showed up after painting. They were about dime-sized domes in the paint. Rubbing my finger over them produced a "shish" sound that made it clear there was no bond to the paint below. Popping those domes off revealed the 80 year old paint beneath, the coat that is right on top of the plaster, so it is clear that the DuraBond peeled off the 80 year old paint beneath it. Beneath the 80 year old paint is 80 year old plaster. The old paint is beige, thin and hard, cutting through it with a knife shows the finish coat of plaster with no other paint layers. Beneath the finish coat is plaster is a scratch coat, then the blue board, which looks pretty much like drywall. The DuraBond dried for about 5 years after application. Before priming, I vacuumed, then went over it with a well rung sponge to get off any dust, then let that dry for a couple of days before priming. The DuraBond is the dry mix setting type that you mix with water.
Prairie
whelp, if the Durabond is in the darker bag, vs the white/blue/maybe red bag, then that is the hard drying stuff with the most binder, so that is right.
Here's what I would do. I'd paint on plaster weld and then skim those spots necessary with another coat or two of Durabond.
Some have said that plasterweld is much like concrete glue-a latex glue much the same as titebond/elmers..............
So, if a person wanted to try that instead, it might be a nice experiment..........................
Sorry I cannot be of more help. You'd think after all this time dealing with problems I'd at least have the answer................
Best of luck.
'school,
if that board and finish is indeed from the 30's, it's not blueboard under the plaster. It's regular drywall, all-be-it a little denser material than you might see today and probably sheets of 16" x 48", (also known as rock lathe) not 4'x8' sheets like today.
that wall may have a coat of calcimine paint that is preventing the paint/durabond from adhereing properly, if no calcimine, then probably just a really tough/dirty oil based enamel, gloss finish, which would have years of grease, dirt, smoke residue(cigarettes) as well as cooking smoke(grease), all of which don't bode well for Durabond adhesion or paint/primer adhesion. If you have access to most of the painted surface, clean it with Dirtex, a powder you mix with water, follow the instructions closely i.e. use a damp sponge starting from the bottom and work up the wall, rinsing the sponge of the dirt as you go. There is no need to rinse the wall, Dirtex leaves no residue, most other cleaners require rinsing before priming/painting. Allow to air dry about 15 minutes or less bfore painting/priming.
Hope this is of some help, if not this project maybe the next one, there are more projects aren't there?
Good Luck,
Geoff
P.S. I'll see if I can locate some more info(I have it somewhere) on calcimine paint , although if my brain serves me well(and it doesn't always these days) It usually requires complete removal from the surface to get paint/primer to adhere properly.
Yeah, "milk paint" is a
Yeah, "milk paint" is a possibility, and it's a female dog to get anything to stick to. There have been claims here of techniques that work, but I don't recall any details.
Does the 30's see the use of milk paint.......
as a rule?
I suspect it depends on region and economic status. I gather the paint was cheap to buy/make (skim milk, curdling agent, powdered pigments) and so was likely popular with those at the bottom of the economic ladder (or those in the country with a ready supply of milk). What I read indicates that it was quite unpredictable in terms of finish, though, so it was unlikely to be used where a "quality" finish was desired.
Certainly in the depth of the Depression, when many rural areas operated on a barter economy, it would have been the rule in those areas.
going by what the OP said, there is one coat of hard paint, probably enamel, but this used to have mastic holding tiles on, so I suspect there is some residue of that old mastic that interfered.
My secret is similar to your plaster weld. Any white PVA prosduct wrks. I like Acryl60. I paint it on and then use it to mix the Durabond for first coat. BNy time I have mixed the DB with it, the surface is drying and slightly tacky.This also helps keep old stains from bleeding through.
The suspect p[art of this one is the several years intervening. Who knows what might have gotten splashed on there or seeped in.
Exactly...............
Who knows what might have gotten splashed ...........
I mentioned this to the OP because deep in the recesses of the past I think I remember a fatal hairspray residue incident...............
The quick bubble reaction and the "not everywhere" certainly suggests something amiss.............Probably doesn't even make a difference what, as long as the outcome is good.
Wonder it they'll ever come back with a report on what DID work?
adhesion - bubbles in paint/rock lath plaster board.
We have rock lath (old drywall 16" x 48") blue drywall boards covered with plaster up to 1/2 " thick on our ceilings and walls. We took the stipple finish off the ceiling in the kitchen and found that the original paint on the plaster was very shiny and oily. We had to thoroughly clean it in order to get another paint finish to stick properly. We figure the worst spots were where the original oil stove was. We used orange oil to cut the grease and rinsed well before refinishing.
durabond
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I've never used Durabond for skim coating. Are you talking about the Durabond in brown bag that dries hard as a rock? That stuff bonds well but is impossible to sand and I would never use it as a skim coat. Easysand would be much better.
If the paint lost it's grip on the old paint, you probably need a special binder for the plaster. Several are avaliable. consult your local Sherwin Williams tech with a sample.