What would you use to paint new wood windows — new bare wood — prior to installation? Water based vs. oil? Brand recommendations? Any suggestions or tips?
Thanks —
— J.S.
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John - the famous casements, right? Basically you want an alkyd primer and topcoat on wood moving surfaces like windows. My favorite primer here would be Val Spar Prep Step primer with 10% Penetrol and Mildew check followed up with a high quality semigloss or gloss alkyd. The gloss might look funny at first but it will tone down a bit in time. I finally found a great paint for double-hungs that goes with Benjamin Moore's regular Brilliant White 096 01 latex trim - Muralo's Super Tred Z0192 Floor and Trim Enamel. While the gloss level is different, I have these on window surfaces and adjacent trim and you can't really see much difference in color from 5' away. Course, you probably can't get Muralo out there in CA - too bad!
Good luck -
T. Jeffery Clarke
John I,ve had alot of luck with Kills oil based primer and Behr oil exteior gloss paint but I,m not a painter, let me know what you do and i,ll try it. next time . joe
John, IF you're dealing with casements...
For your sake, don't cut corners on the details.
Take the sashes out. Remove ALL of the hardware. COMPLETELY (all 6 sides) cover the entire unit with the best primer you can get (2 coats) as well as 2 finish top coats of the best exterior paint you can afford.
Remove that bottom piece that covers the cranking mechanicals. Do the same primer/topcoat treatment inside of that area. Reassemble and put another top coat on. And remove the weatherstripping first!
Then you'll have the type of window you paid for. If not, a couple of years down the road, you'll be replacing a sill or sash or repainting the whole damn thing.
It baffles me to see just how many casements that have been painted by "professionals" that leave this area raw and rotting.
Regarding wood casement window interior finishes, any recommendations on stains or varnishes? I am looking at perhaps several coats of spar varnish instead of paint. Any better recommendations than spar varnish for UV protection and water protection?
Thanks,
CS
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm pulling all the weatherstripping and hardware, and I'll be painting all the surfaces of everything, including the underside of the sill and the outboard sides and top of the jamb -- the surfaces that face the rough opening. I've got all the windows numbered so the right parts go back together again. I used numbers written on tape stuck on the glass for the sash, and for the jambs, I'm using steel stamps from my machine shop stuff to put indented numbers under where the latches attach. If I go with Killz, the problem would be that I couldn't count on felt tip numbers on the outside of the jambs to bleed thru and still be readable. I'm thinking of starting with Jasco's Termin-8 on the exterior surfaces, followed by Killz. I'll Google the Val Spar and Muralo that Jeff recommends.
-- J.S.
"I'm thinking of starting with Jasco's Termin-8 on the exterior surfaces, followed by Killz."
I have "Finishes for Exterior Wood" which was written by people from the Forest Products Laboratory based the the research work at they had done.
They recommend that this first step should be a painted (dipped) water repellent PRESERVATIVE. The show pictures of a test window that was has the preservative and without and then finished and exposed under the same conditions. You can really see the difference. The one without the water repellant preservative the paint is pealing at the all of the joints. Specially where the end grain of the jams hits the sill.
That is one step that I never see anyone suggest.
They prime and paint.
For priming they recommend oild-based, alky-based, or stain-blocking acrylic latex if it is a wood with extractives or an acrylic latex primer is there are no extractices.
Then an all acrylic latex top coat (2).
Is "acrylic latex" a contradiction in terms? I always think of oil based when I see "acrylic", and water based when I see "latex"?
My understanding is that latex paints dry harderthan oils, which can lead to adhering problems when used over bare wood (that's why we have always heard prime with oil) OR oil primers. I always get confused about what should be a very simple process like painting exterior wood. Can anyone shed a little light on this?
Jim
You might be confusing acrylic with with alkyd.
Now I was surprised to see that they listed an oil-base or alkyd based primer. AFAIK all alkyd products are oil based. Alkyd is just one of several resins that are used in oil based products.
According to Flexnor "The Woodfinishing Book" that Latex is a generic name for a waterbased emulsion. And that acrylic is just on of several resins that can be used in the paint. (BTW, this was in a sidebox on how some terms are confusing. The basic book is on interior clear finishes)
Everyplace that read that indicate that the best exterior latex are ones with 100% acrylic resins. That the other resin (unnamed) are cheaper and have less perfromance.
"My understanding is that latex paints dry harderthan oils, which can lead to adhering problems when used over bare wood (that's why we have always heard prime with oil) OR oil primers."
That I don't know, but I think that most people will recommned the use of a the appropirate primer reguardless of the type of finish.
As I understand it the primer is an adhesive coat while the top coats are weathering coats.
> They recommend that this first step should be a painted (dipped) water repellent PRESERVATIVE.
Thanks -- Any brand names you'd suggest? This isn't something like that Thompson's water seal, is it?
-- J.S.
John
They don't give any brand names and I have done anything since got the book that start with raw wood so I have not looked for it.
I don't think that Thomposn's water seal qualifies. I don't think that it has an preservative nor is it paintable.
Here is what they said is in a water-repelient with preservative.
preservative 0.25 to 5%
resin or drying oil 10%
paraffin was 0.5 to 1%
solvent - remainder.
Then it goes and says that paintable version have less wax.
I looked at Jasco's web site. I see that the Termin 8 does say paintable and oil based, but does not say anything about water repellant.
But it looks like the Copper Clear Wood Perservative or ZPW Clear Wood Perservative meet the requirements.
WooPreservative is used with excellent results
http://www.wolman.com/default.asp
Edited 6/22/2002 9:53:49 PM ET by David Dansky
I would go with an oil-based primer followed by a SG latex. The paint reps I have spoken with for various reasons over the years tell me that all paint mfgs are putting their R & D money into latex so the overall performance of an exterior SG latex MIGHT well exceed that of oil, equal $ being spent.
Minwax makes a product called Clearshield that has lots more UV protection than THEIR spar varnish - not sure about any other brands.
Good Luck
For new wood, an oil based primer is usually the best. The reason for this is that the oil resin can actually penetrate the surface of the wood. Latex paints have resins that are too large to penetrate the surface of the wood. However, once you prime with an oil switch to a good quality latex for your topcoat. In exterior applications, latex has several advantages to an oil based paint. First, it remains more flexible than an oil so it can move with the wood. It won't chalk like an oil, and it is also more resistant to fading than an oil.
BTW, in a latex paint there can be different types of binders (aka glue). 100% acrylic binders are the best, followed by vinyl acrylic binders and finally vinyl binders. Alkyd is a synthetic resin used in oil based paints.
Eric