For some reason I thought there were only 3 big paint makers- Behr, ICI and maybe PPG.
True, False? and that all the other brands were “under” one of those???
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we got Mobile paint, no really its a big company here in Mobile called Mobile Paint. we good company too.
There are, as they say, three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
I've seen that claim before, in various forms. The general thrust is that only a few companies make all the paint. Look at the claims more closely, though, and they start unravelling.
Confront the presenter with the myriad paint companies out there, and the claims get quickly midified into "I meant nationally distributed latex house paint." Well, if you added a few more qualifications, you could make that number even smaller!
The number, even if accepted at face value, is a "factoid;" that is, a number without meaning. Does anyone care to assert that the Kilz paint sold at Wal-Mart is the same as what you find in a Benjamin Moore can? After all, both brands have the same corporate parent. That's like asserting that there is no difference between a Hummer and a Geo.
Nor does such rhetoric allow for the fact that paint is still very much a local business. You're never very far from a paint factory; shipping costs are one reason why. Even if ALL the paint in the USA came off one production line, that would have no impact on the thousands of paint manufacturers outside the USA.
Indeed, with the local angle considered, you could very well find differences in paint that is of the same make, but from different plants.
> You're never very far from a paint factory; shipping costs are one reason why.Give it a few weeks -- all paint will be coming from China.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Oh Good! We can start having lead in the paint again!
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even if accepted at face value, is a "factoid;" that is, a number without meaning. Does anyone care to assert that the Kilz paint sold at Wal-Mart is the same as what you find in a Benjamin Moore can?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As a matter of fact they are the same. If they are packed in the same container with the same label and the only difference is the bar code, they are the same.
You are confused when you compare it to a geo and a hummer. The confusion is that these are more expensive products. The difference in the kiltz sale is that you will pay more than if you buy it at Wal Mart. No one in their right mind would set up a different line to make each, when they are labeled the same.
Reminds me of the old wives tale about the big box stores selling different tools than what you buy at your local places. Cost too much to set up different production lines for each. The difference in prices are the difference in the amount of volumn that the retailers are doing!!!!
I'll have to remember that bit about 'the same can with a different wrapper' bit the next time I encounter a paint review (ie: Consumers' Reports) that manages to find differences between such competing products.
The fact is, we have no way of knowing what's in the cans. Formulations are proprietary. Minor ingredients do matter; ask any cook about the spice rack.
As for the bar code ... bar codes matter! For example, did you know that the first few digits identify the country of origin?
I've had the opportunity to visit many factories on behalf of third parties. Some were in widely disparate industries; others were direct competitors. I can tell you that there most certainly are differences between product lines - be the product a hot dog or a shock absorber.
Indeed, the production equipment is often specifically designed for smooth change-overs.
Even within the same product, the exact composition may change daily, in response to commodity prices. For example, a pump part may be either bronze or stainless, depending on commodity prices that day.
Edited 7/5/2009 2:11 pm ET by renosteinke
http://www.construction-index.com/usa-paint.asp
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Interesting that your link shows Behr alongside SW and BM as a leading paint manufacturer. Perhaps primarily because it's the HD house brand?BTW, my opinion of Behr: crapola.
"BTW, my opinion of Behr: crapola."Just wondering what makes it "crapola"?Interior?Exterior?
I have had poor coverage results with Behr paint, don't recall whether it was int. or ext. . That was enough to sour me on the Behr line.I use Parker/Devoe primarily.
Thanks Ken.
Willkommen!The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
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it wasn't about the product it was all about the manufacturer...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
My gue3ss - based on national presence and volumn.It does say "leading". There are lots of regional makers
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am aware of what you have said in your post. The problem is that there is to much BS out there about the box stores products being different.
If it is under the same label it is the same product. A company would have to be incredibly stupid to cheapen a product under their private label. Sorry, you were stateing something thatdoesn't past the smell test if you go back and think about it.
Now if Kiltz wanted to change the label to another name, it would make sense to cheapen the product if they were selling to Wal Mart. The reason that Kiltz doesn't, means that they are selling the same product.
I like the one that was told to me by my plumber. he was told by a local Jdeere dealer that the tractor that is sold at lowes is diff. than the one he sells???????????? Doesn't pass the smell test.
Actually, Glidden qualifies as stupid under your criteria. The Glidden Spred exterior house paint they sold through HD in 2005 was in fact lower quality product than one with a similar name sold through normal Glidden marketing channels. Consumer Reports weather exposure testing confirmed that fact.BruceT
Well, I won't challenge a man's religion. You do, however, give me an opportinity to correct one of my statements.
In my earlier post I associated Kilz with Benjamin Moore; my error. I meant to associate Kilz woth Pratt & Lambert.
I am not aware of Kilz paint being sold anywhere but Wal-mart. Note I said 'paint;' I am not referring to the primers and sealers they are known for.
As for products being different .... I am aware of far too many examples of just that happening. Light bulbs are one current example. Others at FH have documented numerous examples of brand-name power tools that differ between the 'pro' market and the mass merchants. Even the models of Weber BBQ will not be quite the same as available at a dedicated specialty shop. I wander, though.
A more direct example would be my experience when I painted my house. I happened to start off with Glidden paint, as carried by Home Depot. Painting my house one gallon at a time, the project took the better part of two summers. In the courst of that project, the Glidden base product changed twice. Did I notice a difference? Not at all .... but the part # was different. I have no idea how the formulation changed, or for what reasons, but Glidden chose to give it a different part #. Same maker, same product line, same purpose ... different mixes.
Was Glidden 'improving' the product? Cheapening it? Providing the same product to the corner paint store? Your guess is as good as mine. I'll assure you of this, though: the cans were identical save for the part number and bar code.
Reputation? Pratt & Lambert may sell on reputation .... Kilz (paint) has no reputation to risk. Positioning themselves at Wal-Mart, they are selling on price, not reputation. Complain to the parent firm about quality, and I expect that they will suggest you try one of their better brands.
OK.....Here is some interesting information on the paint brand I use the most- Fuller Obrien, which is now branded as Devoe. They make an interior enamel called Double AA Acrylic, for me a one-coat, great flowing paint.This is one BIGass company:About ICI Paints in North AmericaICI Paints is part of the ICI Group (NYSE: ICI), one of the world's largest producers of specialty products and paints. ICI Paints worldwide has 49 manufacturing sites in 25 countries and more than 15,000 employees. Headquartered in Strongsville, Ohio, ICI Paints' North American operations were formed when the ICI Group acquired The Glidden Company in 1986. Today, ICI Paints produces widely respected and tradition rich decorative coatings brands such as Glidden™, Dulux¯, Ralph Lauren¯, Devoe¯, Fuller O'Brien¯, C-I-L™, Color Your World™ and Liquid Nails¯ caulks and adhesives. Products are sold through ICI Paints company stores, national retail outlets and independent paint dealers in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico and are also exported internationally. ICI Paints is an official corporate partner of Major League Soccer, and the Glidden brand is the official paint of Major League Soccer.
Edited 7/6/2009 11:48 pm by kenhill3
Kilz and Behr are made by the same company, Masco.
http://www.coatingsworld.com/articles/2008/07/masco.php
Edited 7/7/2009 10:43 pm ET by qtsam2
Thv ... for some reason I thought it was an S-W brand.
kilz & behr are OWNed by the same company
Masco owns Milgard Windows but Milgard maintains its independence
As you know, MASCO is a huge company.MASCO COMPANIESA
A & J Gummers
Alsons Corporation
American Shower & Bath Corporation
Aqua Glass Corporation
Arrow Fastener Company, Inc.
B
Behr Process Corporation
BrassCraft Manufacturing Company
Brasstech, Inc.
Breuer, Germany
Bristan, Ltd.
C
Cambrian Windows Ltd., UK
Cobra Products Inc.
D
Damixa
Delta Faucet Company
Duraflex Ltd.
E
Erickson Construction (see Masco Framing Corporation)
Environments For Living (Masco Home Services, Inc.)
G
Griffin Windows, Ltd.
H
Hansgrohe AG
Heritage Bathrooms Ltd.
Hüppe
K
KraftMaid Cabinetry
L
Liberty Hardware
M
Masco Contractor Services
Masco Framing Corporation
Masco Retail Cabinet Group
Masterchem Industries LLC
Merillat
Milgard Windows & Doors
Mirolin Industries Corporation
Moores Furniture Group Ltd.
P
Peerless Faucet (see Delta Faucet Company)
PowerShot Tool Company, Inc.
Premier Manufacturing Ltd.
Q
Quality Cabinets
S
Service Partners
T
Tvilum-Scanbirk
V
Vapor Technologies Inc.
W
Watkins Manufacturing CorporationChuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Home Depot only sells the lowest end stuff, for higher quality units with more features and capability you need to go to the JD dealer. Higher quality more durable units are available at the dealer. Also Deere makes units for residential use that have diesel engines, cat 0 and 1 3 point hitches as well as loaders. Good luck finding that at Home Depot.
No where did I say that HD sells the complete line.
Point taken. That is the problem with text messages which is interpretation. From this "I like the one that was told to me by my plumber. he was told by a local Jdeere dealer that the tractor that is sold at lowes is diff. than the one he sells???????????? Doesn't pass the smell test."some would think that Lowes(also a mistake by my since I mentioned HD) sells the same stuff as a Deere dealer. Honestly I think we are both right. I am sure the same cheap crappy Lowes model is available at the JD dealer and maybe they don't stock it but I've been down the route with cheap tools that you need to use everyday. I chose the better quality unit that had the features not available at Lowes at probably 6 to 7 times the cost, and I thank my stars every time I use it. But to be fair, if I did not need the loader and 3 point hitch, and 62 inch deck, I would have been able to get by with the 30 year old simplicity 36 inch Lawn tractor mower that is probably as good as that new deere from Lowes. I am pretty sure the same this is true with paint. I have used Behr and I think the interior stuff is water with tint. However the outdoor stain is not bad. Benjamin Moore is great for interior wall colors but I find their ceiling paint very poor. The factory can be set up to do a run of what ever you want at the cheapest price and then slightly modified and loaded with better parts or ingredients to produce much better product. JD does a run of the cheap units and the loads the machines with better parts and does a run of higher quality units, same with the paint, load the machines with #### or adjust them to lower the amount of solids for one run and then change the adjustments when you run better paint. It is pretty easy to do.
ahhh not so... product might look the same but very often is NOT the same ... and yes they will run a special line just for Wal-Mart or HD or Lowes... very true in power tools... also true in guns... when i use to have a FFL and deal in guns you could spot a "mart" gun a mile away... a gun purchased from wal-mart has reached a price point for walmart... to get that order they will use different wood for the stock... almost no final finish and very low quality blueing... it's the same gun in form and function... but it is NOT the same gun you'd get from your local high end sporting goods or gun shop... no way no how...
in tools even if it's dewalt... it's not the same won't have the same SKU that way they don't have to match the price less 10%... might only be the difference of the power cord being 4 inches shorter but it will have it's own SKU that is only for LOWES sales...
I use to work with PC when they manufactured about everything in Jackson, TN (I worked with their sports marketing when they sponsored a race car) but yes they would set up a line and make a run of tools for a big box store... or for a gov contract... or for a special promotion... most were set up to meet a price point... and yes they were a cheaper version of the same tool... lighter power cord... less amp motor... keyed vs keyless chuck... no case... no blades... ect...
p:)
after all that...
so who's who???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
There is no "who's who."
Personally, I like Carbit for oil, Tambour for latex, and Flood for my deck .... but that's just me.
As I've explained in another post to this thread, even within the same product there can be enough differences to belie the 'they're all the same' implication behind the 'they're all the same company' assertion.
Look, I don't care if all paint comes out of the same vat controlled by twin trolls "Sherwin" and "William," ..... or if it's really may by elves squeezing it from the fruit of paint trees. Nor have I the slightese interest in what some magazine may say (what does a professional writer know?).
My "who's who" stops at the local paint store. That's the 'who' that matters. A small business isn't about to survive providing a poor product to the pros. You can walk in the door, and pretty much trust the guy to do you right. That's something you can't rely upon from the box stores - where even the store manager has little say.
If someone is fascinated in corporate 'family trees,' feel free to research the matter. Don't be surprised if you find that some brands have been bought, sold, split, and combined multiple times. Corporate offices often have other matters of concern, and the actual products under their roof have a very low priority. Heck, with some divisions, it can become a game of 'who owns us this week?'
Not paint , but shock absorbers (2 makers) and wiper blades (Bosch makes nearly all) are pretty much monopolized.
>>Not paint , but shock absorbers (2 makers) and wiper blades (Bosch makes nearly all) are pretty much monopolized.
Working in the automotive manufactureing field for the last 30 years I can say ..... no, that is wrong.
I took a tour of the Muralo paint company manufacturing facility in Bayonne, NJ. They are a small, independent paint company and they do all of their own manufacturing, packaging and distribution. I'm sure there are many others just like them.
P.S. They make high quality products, but since they do virtually no advertising, my customers have never heard of them so I use a lot more Benjamin Moore than Muralo.
Bet this company would love to hear they don't exist.
http://www.roddapaint.com/
Rodda must be pretty much a Northwest thing. I have used a lot of their paint and I especially like their interior stuff.The Woodshed Tavern Backroom
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Valspar has nearly 10,000 employees worldwide -
http://www.valsparglobal.com/corp/about/
They used to make specialty paints like primers but have moved more mainstream. Quality was always high - ditto for Muralo, which in the mid-1940s was the largest water-based paint company in the world (founded 1894) - not exactly newbies.
http://www.muralo.com/home/
Jeff
Hard to keep track of who's who and who owns what. I've always liked Cabot exterior stains and was surprised to find Valspar bought them. Or Warren Buffet (Berkshire Hathaway) owning Benjamin Moore. Still good products imho .........
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