Just got a job to paint the entire interior of a house… beige… everything… walls, ceiling, trim – everything beige. How exiciting that will look!
Anyhow, I’m thinking this might be the opportunity to get a paint sprayer. I probably average painting 2 – 3 houses a year, and will probably be doing more, so any recommendations on which one to get?
I saw one at sherwin williams for around $450 that had a power roller attachment with it. These look like they would be the ticket, but I’v never seen any of the “pro’s” using a power roller. Are they worth having, or just a gimmick?
st
Replies
gimmick. Painters that have rollers and sprayers going at the same time are spraying the walls and backrolling it. That's the apartment quickie method.
On the sprayer itself, you might not need a whole lot of what they do at the moment, but I do think that $450 is $450 you're going to feel like you just flushed down the drain down the road. A good quality starter pump, like a Graco 395 or a Titan 440 is about the bottom price ladder. I'm thinking if you snag a sale you're probably in one for 700. And you won't get gimmicks with them. You can spray ceilings or trim or doors . . . pretty much the bulk of what you're going to run into. And if you need more of a pump, you're painting enough to buy one. Little buggers are pretty good if you just keep a little preventative maintenance going - keep them clean on the inside and TSL on the gaskets.
Or you could go crazy and get a Mark V. Then start advertising that you'll do block filler. (Okay, that's a joke.) You won't need something that big unless you're spraying something really heavy - like block filler, wall surfacer, drywall mud.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I second the 440 as I've been using one
for years. They are great little sprayers and like
RW said you just need to keep them clean
and they will give you years of trouble free service.
Edited 10/22/2005 5:01 am ET by butch
All I can tell you from my experience is DO NOT get a Wagner!!! Just about the most worthless piece of equipment I've ever used. Though it did make a cute noise. Maybe they're improved now; I used one about ten years ago.
Appriciate it. I'll stay away from the wag... I hate crappy tools.
I'll be saving up for the titan 440
Let us know how you like the Titan will ya?
As to Wagner power sprayers - I'm intrigued by Danno's post.
My experience with a Wagner power sprayer also dates back at least 10 years ago...
Did ALL the trim and walls/ceiling (including stipple and knockdown) in a 2700+ sf house with one - had NO problems. In fact, the unit we had was a little champ! (but like so many other of our tools - it ended up with the XDH when we divorced...so haven't used a Wagner since.)DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
I posted my problems with the Wagner before, (and maybe I had one that the owner mistreated) but... The vibration kept unscrewing the tip and it would fall off unless I stopped every so often and screwed it back on tight. It dripped the Water Seal I was using down my arm--nothing quite like Thompson's Water Seal dripping off your elbow, or into your arm pit. (But it does keep you fresh and sweet smelling!) That's about all I remember about it now--you know how you repress bad memories!
Bad memories?
Aint got no stinkin bad memories...<g>
(sorry our Wagner experiences were so divergent but hey - seems we're talking 'bout a decade ago too...!)
I gotta git - paint supplies all set up and the Living rm awaits.
Later!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
I own two of the Titan 440 from Sherwin Williams and just purchased a Graco 795. The 440's are a great little spray system. They have paid for themselves many times over. One unit is used for paints and and the other is used for clear finishes. My Sherwin Williams store usually has no interest financing available for the sprayers. Check with the manager.
Bruce
Good point. Uncle Sherwin is good with ye olde payment plans. Everything I've gotten there thats "big ticket" we've always worked out some kind of no interest deal on. I do have a Mark V as well, and with all the little extras, warranty, spare snout, that one broke 5K, and no interest for a year. That sure makes buying that kind of thing a lot easier on the head when you can spread the pain out.
I've never used the Titan, but that and the 395 are probably about 90% of the sprayer sales around here. They're pretty comparable in performance. Some like the Graco name, some like that the Titan is 50 bucks less. The only thing I've found with them is the filter on the Titan is down on the bottom which makes it a little more fuss to get at as opposed to the Graco. Beyond that, they're about the same thing.
I'd add to the original poster, spring for a whip when you buy it, and a swivel if it doesn't come with one. What a difference your world will feel with the added flexibility at the end of the line."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
Here is a good discussion that includes techniques for the different types of sprayers:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Oil_finish_with_airless_equipment.html
non-painter question: when do you use a sprayer vs rollers and brushes? I've never been quite clear - what determines it: volume, quality, different types of finishes? I mostly see the pros using rollers in my area but it seems like spraying would so much faster that I've wondered.
Storme,
For us there are many variables.
Spraying: Level 5 finish: Drywall prep using SW High Build or Builders Solution primers followed by SW XP or Duration Home. All high gloss trim work, kitchen cabinets, a house full of doors or when we use catalyzed laquers or conversion varnishes. If ceilings are white with colored walls, we will spray all the ceilings and then roll the walls.
We usually roll and/or brush everything else. We never spray house exteriors simply because the houses here are so close together, the chance for overspray getting on other houses, cars, etc is very high and I despise roof shingles and brick chimneys with a paint border that matches the fascia or siding. We see that far too often.
Bruce
I don't have a recommendation but a interesting story related to the all beige thing. My sister in law and her doctor husband bought a house and hired a crew. Without saying what their nationality is, my wife's family will only hire people of the same nationality. It's not that they hate other races but just want to do their part to help out their own..that's fine. But for god sakes hire someone will some skill and pride in their work.Anyway, the crew came in with rollers and sprayers and painted everything white...and I mean everything. They didn't tape the windows, outlets, phone jacks, nothing! It was all a bright white...and a cheap quality, flat white paint. There are dirt marks and paint chips everywhere.
When you're painted a popcorn textured ceiling spraying is the way to go.On a side note about a year ago I was at home depot in the tool rental dept bright and early at about 8 am and an older gentleman was returning the paint sprayer he had rented.He had completed his painting the day before and did not know he was responsible for cleaning the spray equipment! It was an unbelievable mess!When I left the clerk was telling him to take it home and clean it up the best he could. aaauuuuuuuuugggghhhhhh!
I was looking in lowes and home depot tonight. lowes has spraytec, and hd has graco. The graco xr7 looked appealing to me. the box says it's rated to do twice as much painting per year than I probably ever do, and it's within my current budget (just under 500). Anyone used the xr7?
drbgwood, Im not a painter, but Im a remodeler/general contractor and when things get slow, I get reeeeel general.That being said, I have a xr7 and Ive been very happy with it. I have sprayed sheetrock primer, latex paint for houses, stain for many barns and that thick oil based Kentucky black fence paint on alot of horse fence and never had a problem with mine. Be sure to match your o-rings and tips to the kind of paint you are using and I think this sprayer will do whatever you need it to.
thanks, I'll probably pick one up this weekend.
question...when you are using a spayer like this, with laytex paint, how long can you "set the gun down" while you are painting something, without having anything starting to get cloged up?
how long can you "set the gun down" while you are painting something, without having anything starting to get cloged up?With my titan I've left it over night with no problems the next day. Cover the paint and maybe keep the gun in a bucket of water, to keep the paint from drying out.Your mileage may vary.edited to add to unplug sprayer also.
Edited 10/30/2005 4:21 am ET by butch
Take a solvent soaked rag and wrap it around/stuff it into the tip of the gun. Water is safe, but don't leave a thinner soaked rag unattended for too long.
Dustin
That's a little risky. Ideally, you could leave the unit sit for days and be fine. But if you have a slow leak somewhere, and the pressure escapes, once the check valve is free, the whole thing drains and you have a pump full of dried paint.
A few hours isn't a big deal though. You drop the whole head in a bucket of water or mineral spirits to keep the head and tip from getting clogged. Leave the snout in the material bcuket and keep it covered. "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
As far as ''laying the gun down'', I really don't know.I would think that the temp. would effect this to a certain extent.I have left mine with the gun in a bucket of water for a lunch break with no problems and also since most of my painting has been outside, when it gets hot I try to keep my rig/5 gal. open paint in the shade when possible. Side note....I personally don't care for the look of a sprayed interier sheetrock finish,I always roll these, but then again I'm not a pro painter and I;m usually just painting an addition or something that I just built.
I guess I will add in to this with an extreme. I went in for cervical neck fusion/surgery and I forgot to clean it prior(oops). It was at least a month later when I found it with a full hopper of paint. I pop a stick in the hopper stired up the paint solids on the bottom , turned it on and it prayed just fine.
As to a sprayer, go with one that will spray at least a 19/1000th tip (as in a #519, or #719 tip) That way you should be able to spray latex unthinned.
As to the brand I have 3 airless pumps made by Wagner/Spraytech. These are the diaphram type that have the 1 1/4 gal hopper on the top. Easy to fill/clean. These are specially suited for lacquer work. I also have a piston pump that has the siphon/snorkle that you stick in the bottom of the 1 or 5 gal paint can. I like this one but it is harder to clean. I wish I had gotten it with a cart/wheel setup.
As to what was previously suggested, don't go with a cheap gun. I have 4) G10 guns, so this gives you an idea of what I think of them. there are even better ones on the market. The G10 gun runs around $100 if you can find it on sale. Usually one paint company or another has a sprayer/gun on sale within your price range. I just finished painting and the gun had a pretty good amount of paint on it. I just stuck it in a small bucket of lacquer thinner and with in 20 mins the gun looked almost new. One of the best things about the G10 gun is that the filter in in the handle on the guns and is easy to remove and clean. The are about the size of a 4" long pencil and come in various screen sizes for different types of material. I can;t remmber the last time that I actually clogged the filter enough that ithe guns didn't spray. The red ones are for tips smaller than .013 tip such as for lacquer/stain. White are for thicker latex type materials.
My best recomendation is to buy through a local paint store that has technical knowledge of sprayers. This way, when you have a problem they are there to help. A good store shoud even be able to help you out on thinning material and what tips sizes and fan sizes you should use on you particular sprayer.
I've had a wagner for years and it is great. 525 or 625 I think.
Don't buy a cheap unit- any mfg- and you'll be happier.
I learned many years ago that the gun is a key. I probably buy one or two a year. G10N if I recall is the ones I currently have. I use one for lacquer until it starts to leak, then use it for latex. Once that leaks I toss it- rebuild kit price is almost as much as a new gun.
I've rebuilt the diaphragm, the inlet and outlet valves. Stuff wears out, parts are readily available for the wagner.
I really think the commercial/professional grade products from all mfgs are pretty solid- and different from the lower grade stuff.
A
I bought an xr9 to do my house and eventually a new house we're building (as well as a whole assortment of out buildings - we have a small ranch) and was very pleased with it. Originally, I bought the low end model, trying to be cheap - mistake - and had it die on me after 7 minutes! When back to HD, they took it back, and I had a long talk with a paint guy salesman who seemed to know his business. He told me an interesting story. Seems that a guy came into the store who was with Graco who is actually in the video that comes with the unit. Although the xr7 is their most popular sale, his recommendation was to go with the 9 because he claimed it had a better motor in it. So I sprung for the extra $100 and got it. Very pleased with it.
And like others said, keep it clean.
Regarding cleaning of rented spray equipment - I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but our local (big name ) rental company has a habit of not mentioning that the equipment must be returned completely clean, and this means inside and out. It may seem obvious that the line should be clean, and the pump, but I've seen more than one surprised customer hit with a "cleaning charge " of 75 bucks because there was spray on the hose! I think they don't mention this when the tool goes out because you might try to cover the hose with tape, and it could get messy/ sticky. Anyway, they've got some kind of dip that they use to clean off the hose for the next sucker who rents it. Most people won't think that a sprayer must be returned clean. After all, a pro's sprayer will usually be covered with paint.
I had my rocker, who also primes everything and does the ceilings and closets, use SW Builders Solution as the first coat after mud finish.
He is an advocate of USG's First Coat and poo-pooed the SW application.
If you are familiar with each, can you critique the SW Builders Solution vs. the USG First Coat product?
I have been wanting to try out the USG product but have not had the opportunity. According to my rocker, there is very little demand and his supplier does not want to stock it. I have been satisfied with the Builders Solution, but I am always interested in products to help improve our level 5 finishing efforts. What have your experiences been with these products?
Bruce
Having had my rocker do one new house in each, I can say I prefer the look and results, after only one coat of eggshell latex, of the walls done with the SW Builders Solution.
Drb,
I just wanted to add that those Gracos at HD are fine for someone who doesnt spray all the time. That magnum line has a smaller diameter hose, and doesnt put out as much material as fast, but they are good units. I think the pro rather than homeowner units have a bit more serious pump (when it comes to wear), and you can add a lot more components, but the magnum series seems like a good solution for you.
Titan, Graco, Accuspray, and Spraytech all make good gear.
Good luck, but read your directions and be careful.
-zen
thanks to all. I'll be giving the xr7 a try today. Wished I could budget for a 440 right now, just cause I usually like to get the good stuff, but I think the xr will do nicely for a couple more years. Plus, I need to get this house I'm on now finished... like as in yesterday.
Someone mentioned the look of spayed walls not being so great, which I'm planning to spray and then back roll anyway, but what about adding flotrole to the paint? Can that give you a smooth wall or trim finish without having to back roll?
Floetrol will probably complicate your issue, and make sags and runs your problem.
Try to learn to spray... its a serious learning curve to do well. The unit doenst give a lot of direction, but follow the ones they do give. There is a taunton spray book, I dont know how much it talks about airless.
Your product will need to be trouble shot, where you need to figure out what you are doing wrong. The good thing about airless, is that you have one less variable, you dont have to adjust the air. Tip size and feed are your issues, and Id suggest to follow the prescribed tip size on the product label until you know your unit, and how to use it.
-zen
Something else that I don't believe anybody hasmentioned is that with high pressure spray rigs,if you happen to hit your skin with the spray, you can injectpaint into your blood. So look at your warnings in the directionsand heed them.
Something else that I don't believe anybody has
mentioned is that with high pressure spray rigs,
if you happen to hit your skin with the spray, you can inject
paint into your blood.
I spent a week in the hospital after removal surgery of varnish. That was a bad deal over all requardless what anyone might tell you.
Tim
I'm hip to that danger, been working with compressed air tools, presure washers, scuba gear and such for a good while now.
Still, appriciate the warning.
Got the xr7 yesterday morning, and very pleased.
Although, had I realized that Home Depot has switched totally to automated check out lines, I would have bought it somewhere else. Nothing like standing there for 5 minutes trying to feed $500 worth of 20's into a machine to remove all the magic from the buying experience. Home Depot SUCK'S! ...even worse now than they used to.
Anyway, with that gripe off my chest, switching from rolling ceilings to spraying them kicks ####. Wished I could have gotten hold of one of these machines a couple of years ago.
I tried just spraying a wall to see how it would turn out, but like I had been told, didn't look so great. I didn't see much of a problem with the texture of the paint on the wall so much as it seemed to be difficult to get the coverage even. Back rolling did the trick and the rest of the walls looked great.
Even with the back rolling, I can still see my time being cut in half to paint. Definately a worthwile investment.
Another trick I learned w/ spray equip. is for new walls I would spray the primer and back roll.Then when I'm spraying the top coat the texture from theprimer coat was there and all you would have to do is spraywithout backrolling, and you can cover with one coat(sprayed) versus 2 coats brushing and rolling. I guess you know aboutusing shields?
Hmmm. The house I'm doing now is a repaint on top of existing 15 year old laytex with a very similar color. According to what you are saying, I should be able to spray those walls without back rolling.... correct?
What I found yesterday when I tried without back rolling was that it was difficult to get an even enough coverage to be satisfied with. I'm sure it's mostly due to being a newbie with the airless gun, but I do have experience with HVLP doing cabinetry work.
I was spraying a horizontal fan, up and down motions, overlaping each previous pass by 50%. It looked great, till it dried. Then I could see alot of the spay pattern I used. some areas seemed thick, some seemed to show the old color thru.
On the walls that I back rolled, they dried fine.
I'm interested if there's something different I can do to not have to back roll.
Got the sheild, been using it.
"I'm interested if there's something different I can do to not have to back roll."
Your post answered that already.
If you had back rolled every where you would be done.
The previous poster back rolls new drywall fro good reason as it always should be in my opinion. You also had a rough ceiling if I remember correctly and needed the back rolling badly to seal it in. Spraying is a cover but it doesnt fill much as far as voids.
Yer learnin.
Tim
Posted a reply to you last night and looked this morningand it wasn't there. Oh well guess it got lost in cyberspace.The only thing I can add is, are you spraying parallel to the surfaceand relasing and triggering only when you are moving?Also on a previously painted surfaced (espically a smooth)back rolling isn't neccesarry imho. Let me know if any of this helps.
The ceiling didn't give me any problem, not being back rolled. It seemed to soak the paint up more evenly. It's a popcorn ceiling, but very fine texture.
I've got one room left to do, so I'll try spraying without rolling again today. Maybe I just need to spray a little thicker than what I have been doing, not to thickly of course.
The room I did to begin with was originally almost exactly the same beige that I'm spraying on (homeowners favorite color), except semigloss original, eggshell new. Wet eggshell looks alot like dry semi, so I may have just been missing spots.
If you all spray doors, either previously painted, or unpainted, what's the scoop on back rolling then?
The ceiling didn't give me any problem, not being back rolled. It seems you can spray the snot out of popcorn ceilings withoutgetting to much paint on, but a smooth surface is a another wholeballgame. Did you see my post about spraying parrelel(spelling) to the surface? And keeping your gun moving while spraying?if you all spray doors, either previously painted, or unpainted, what's the scoop on back rolling then?Any surface that is raw in my opinion needs to be backrolled.
looked back thru, didn't see the one about paralell to the surface. I think I got the idea though... the gun has to be pointed strait at the wall so both sides of the fan are equal distance. right?
Sprayed my last room today and put it on heavier than on my first room attempted. Slowed the gun movement slightly and it seamed to do the trick. It's a fine line between to much and not enough, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.
thanks to all.
Thanks for the thread, guy. I spent 1/2 the day working on some eave painting, and gave up. By the days end, I had the xr7 at home, going through the instructions.
After reading everything here, I think I'm ready to go. And if not, it can't be any worse than trying to do it by hand...
Don
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
the gun has to be pointed strait at the wall so both sides of the fan are equal distance. right?Yeah, but also when your swinging your arm, you keep the distanceto the work surface through the swing. Instead of arcing your swing,getting closer at mid stream and drifting away at the end.Does that make sense?????
yep, got it. been holding the gun about a foot from the wall, vertical strokes all the way from top to bottom.
thanks.
With regard to doors, you should not need to back roll them, at least I never have. Trim and doors are totally different spraying than spraying walls. On trim and doors, we are always trying for the smoothest finish possible, backrolling would add a small dimple to the finish. If you are a novice at trim spraying, I would suggest using a high quality oil base paint (SW, Ben Moore) with a little Penetrol and using a brush. Assuming you prepped it well, you can get a great finish on most trim. When we spray alot of doors, we take them off, lay them flat and spray them on the horizontal-eliminates any chance of runs even is something is hit with a slightly thicker layer... but we have never backrolled trim or doors.
Bruce
Not to disagree, but I've noticed with doors suchas fir that the grain is a little "open" and if youspray it the paint just sits on the surface as opposedto being pushed into the pores when rolling.
For any raw wood we paint we always use as primer that generally resolves those open grain issues. We use SW SF-1 which is a shellac based primer and has great stain blocking characteristics (to hide knots or other defects) and sands up just great. It is also fast drying so you can usually sand in 1 or 2 hours after priming.
The way you describe your process implies you are applying paint directly to raw wood. We always prime raw wood.
Bruce
The way you describe your process implies you are applying paint directly to raw wood. We always prime raw wood.I'm talking about applying primer to raw wood and the differencein absorbtion rates of sprayed versus rolled.