I have extensive crown moulding, 37 doors, and trim work to paint in a 6,000 sf home. I was going to purchase an HVLP to do the job. A painter told me that is not a good idea as it will take forever. He suggests I use an airless gun with a 3 18 spray tip with no filter to get the job done. I would be using Sherwin Williams ProClassic paint. Does this sound right? thx.
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He's right. Use an airless for paint. HVLP is more for clear finishes such a lacquer, varnishes etc. where the viscosity is higher and it atomizes smaller. I don't think I've ever seen HVLP used for paint.
He's wrong (IMHO). You can absolutely spray paint with HVLP, providing it's a powerful enough unit. I've done it manyyyy times. The HVLP will give you much less overspray. If you're planning to buy however, a suitable unit is going to be 700+ simoleans for an entirely self contained unit.
HTH
PaulB
PaulBinCT.
Not so fast there bucko ;-) I have both airless and HVLP and when I paint solid paint the airless makes less overspray mess than the HVLP does on the other hand when I do shellac I'd never go with airless rather the HVLP and pressure pot become my tool..
Hmmmmmmmmmmm well... I guess we'll just have to call this a rare disagreement ;)
I have both as well and he only time I use my airless is when I have a bigggg job where transfer efficiency and mess aren't a factor. That is to say... not in a while now ;) But of course... YMMV.PaulB
Paul,
OK I failed to mention the covering large areas aspect of an airless sprayer. However I can easily control the mess aspect with the airless sprayer.. I simply narrow the fan down to a small area and the overspray is a minimum.. It's one of the few tools I don't bother to suit up to use. While I may a have a few drops on me at the end of spraying the whole house, It's no where near the potential mess I can create with other methods pf paint application.. (sometimes I think it would be faster if I simply jumped into the paint bucket and threw myself on the walls <grin>
Actually I think the original poster was speaking of crown molding because if he was speaking of base molding or walls and wanted it clear I would tell him to brush it..
While you cover more area with a sprayer, the taping time and mess clean up is much longer with spraying than brushing.. more than offsetting any speed gains by the equipment..
I have both airless and HVLP and when I paint solid paint the airless makes less overspray mess than the HVLP does
Then you need a lesson on how to set the machine! Dont know if you're aware of it but the HVLP is known for little to no overspray.
You're the only guy that I know that will/could make that claim.
Doug
Doug U
Years ago when HVLP first came into use I believed the claims made, purchased my first gun and sprayed without my normal booth. I still have tools and tool boxes with over spray on them as a result of that disaster. I was able to remove the overspray from my cars only because I spent hours buffing away the over spray.
Thinking that I'd made a major goof somehow I called up the Devilbus rep and asked him over. I reenacted exactly what I'd done previous and explained that I hadn't used my normal "spray booth " approach because of the claims of HVLP. He first confirmed that my technique was correct and then informed me that if HVLP was as good as it's claims the sales of paint booths would be declining instead of increasing..
There will be significantly less over spray than previous guns had but in no way does it eliminate overspray completely. Due to the lower pressure involved less material will bounce off the object and become that dense cloud I was so used to working in but there is still significant overspray..
That is unlike my experience with my airless sprayer which I can paint walls with and need only roll out a narrow strip of ground cover to catch any over spray..
Now granted we are speaking about painting two wildly different materials here.. Clear materials such as shellac or lacquer that are highly thinned and the far more solid and dense latex paints that are unthinned for all intents and purposes.. (sometimes floewtrol is added under certain circumstances)
Frenchy is your HVLP gun a compressor or turbine model?Wallyo
Wallyo
Currant guns are all conversion/ i.e. compressor guns. First gun was turbine. That actaully was slightly worse with more overspray.. Plus I'm not sure if it was because it was new or becuase the technique is dramatically differant but the quality of the finish with the turbine gun was simply lousy.. Too much orange peel..
Luckily I sold it before it had much wear on it because 6 months after I sold it the turbine died.
Orange peel is not the fault of a turbine, it is the AIR CAP used and the finish , humidity, flowout, film thickness and temperature. A turbine can also be throttled down if it is too much volume, but the temp of the air coming out is still as high..and the guns can get warmer than comfortable to hold..again,a GRAPHITE AccuSpray gun body doesn't do that. Air cap and needle..needs to match the viscosity of the fluid..either a Ford or Zahn cup is used.
You didn't get enough training from a pro, if you had such terible results..really. It take a knack, being so different from conventional HP guns.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I used to demo and sell accuspray guns and apollo turbines, and yes, you can and will still have overspray, just not near as much as a conventional gun. Common sense still prevails as to using an explosion proof spray booth. Both for safty and quality of the sprayed surface.
We distributed Hydrocoat waterbased finishes and our selling points were the non flam strengths, for prisons and schools..and that hydrocoat could be used in an occupied hospital, with out the effect that solvent based finishes could have.
But again, if you expected NO overspray or 100% Transfer efficiency, the only way to do that without a brush or roller is electro-static or dip. Wood doesnt take a neg charge real well tho'.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Edited 2/4/2008 12:53 pm ET by Sphere
Sphere,
That's my problem! I hooked the negative side up to the wood not the positive side!
< Big Grin >
>>> But again, if you expected NO overspray or 100% Transfer efficiency, the only way to do that without a brush or roller is electro-static or dip. Wood doesnt take a neg charge real well tho'.Maybe that's why they brought out that "Iron Wood" line. So you can powder coat wood...
Frenchy
If you were getting a lot of overspray with your HVLP then you did not have it set right! NO IF ANDS OR BUTTS ABOUT IT! I don't care what any tech was saying to you over the phone, he couldn't see your settings so how the hell would he know if you needed to turn the knob 1/4 turn one way or the other?
I don't know if you are using a true HVLP or one that hooks up to a compressor. I have no experience with the later but when I got my hvlp and started playing with it I was getting a nice cloud in my garage and thinking wtf, why all the overspray? Played around with it trying different settings and finally started shooting without the cloud of dust and the hardy Hi-O-Silver, I had finally got the setting close to right, trick now was to duplicate my experience.
Took awhile but I finally got the knack for setting the gun and I have cut down on my overspray tremendously, don't know if I'm 100% dead on but I'm getting pretty good results none-the-less.
NO tech in the world can tell you over the phone whether or not your gun is set right, that man/woman has not been invented yet!
Doug
Doug U
Where did you get the idea it was over the phone? I didn't say that.. I got the factory rep out to my place and he confirmed that I was shooting it correctly. The statement he made regarding overspray was to my face. I had the right pressures and the paint was properly thinned.. (first time I'd used a flow meter instead of judgement)
As I said the over spray is less than the old high pressure guns, you don't get the bounce off effect but it is still not completely free of overspray.. others have chimed in here to confirm my statements..
I did get rid of the old turbine powered system (luckily for me) and today both of of my guns work off the big main compressor which I have dialed down to the correct inlet pressure.. The over spray with either system is about the same..
Frenchy
Where did you get the idea it was over the phone?
Thinking that I'd made a major goof somehow I called up the Devilbus rep and asked him over.
Sorry, All I read was the "I called up the Devilbus rep" part. My mistake.
you don't get the bounce off effect but it is still not completely free of overspray.
Yes, I agree that there is overspray. Just not as much as an airless, at least in my experiences. I cant speak about the hvlp using a compressor because I've never seen it done so .......
Again, my apologies, I need to read the entire post!
Doug
Doug U
No problem I wish I could claim I was perfect in reading everything posted in the internet, I'm not so I won't bust your chops. At least it caused me to recheck my spraying approach.. at least mentally..
Well, frenchy maybe everyone here need a lesson on how to successfully leave OSB out in the rain for four years, and how to set the forms for an ICF foundation in under four hours, and how to build ......
I've sprayed lots of solvent based paint with an HVLP set up. Last Fall I painted some interior doors using latex and it's a completely different animal. Here's what I came away with:1) The latex has to be thinned more than recommended on the label2) Floetrol is absolutely needed3) The air pressure has to be set 25% higherAfter thinning the paint as much as I dared, I found the job was still slow going. The results looked OK but it took about 1/2 hour to paint a door and there was plenty of overspray floating about from the higher air pressure (HVMP?).Most companies formulate latex paints so they don't run easily. This is good when we're brushing a baluster because a heavy coat will stay in place. The viscosity increases if the paint sits undisturbed and I think that's why the stuff is hard to spray with any gun that relies on atomization. Airless guns are pumping the fluid through the nozzle and that lowers the viscosity when it leaves the gun.
Are you using a true HVLP or a HVLP that connects to a standard air compressor. I would guess you are referring to a compressor since you say you increased the pressure. On a true HVLP the only adjustment is on the gun. The two on most are, volume of paint and volume of air not presure of air, On a true HVLP you have a 3/4" hose not a 1/4" hose.So lets be clear here we seem to be talking about three systems on this tread.1) a airless sprayer; a pump sucks up paint and forces down a hose out of a pistol with a
ceramic tip.2) a HVLP that uses for all basic description a vacuum motor, usually 3 or 4 stage (cheap
ones are 2) a one stage, what most shop vacs are, won't work. A stage is just a fancy
name for how many turbine fins are ganged on the shaft of the vac motor in series,
each turbine has a baffle between it and the next. Air is fed through a 3/4" garden hose.3) a HVLP that connects to a high volume high pressure compressor and the air is feed
through a 1/4 hose. In theory this is supposed to work never used one. It might work
if you replumbed the compressor to all 3/4" pipe with a 3/4" regulator that you can turn
down to about 8 PSI with no surge every time the compressor turns on. Yes there are
guns that attach to 1/4 hose but from what I heard they do not work well. You would
probably need a 80 gallon tank either way. Not too portable.WallyoEdited 2/4/2008 1:37 am ET by wallyo
Edited 2/4/2008 1:56 am ET by wallyo
"Are you using a true HVLP or a HVLP that connects to a standard air compressor. I would guess you are referring to a compressor since you say you increased the pressure. On a true HVLP the only adjustment is on the gun."I have owned both. I first started with an expensive ($1K) HVLP system with the turbine compressor and $300 guns. I liked the nice warm, dry air the turbine produced, but the epoxy and PU paints I sprayed soon ruined the guns and the turbine blew up about three months out of warranty.After that I switched to a conversion gun that uses 40 PSI air from my big compressor. This set up works great with the caveat that you need a two-stage dryer and filter to keep all water and water vapor out of the gun end. After going through several expensive, name-brand guns, I switched to the $70 cheap-o units and they work just as well.The trade off in HVLP is finish quality versus pressure. Very thin paints can be applied at "normal" HVLP pressures (8-10 PSI at the nozzle) with a good finish. As viscosity goes up, the quality of the finish declines unless the pressure is increased. Of course higher pressure means more overspray, and that sort of defeats the purpose of using HVLP in the first place.Manufacturers recommend a bigger tip when spraying latex with HVLP because that's the only way to achieve decent volume out of the gun with a normal pattern. But IMO the bigger tips produce a coarser finish and I'd rather take a little longer than have something that looks like it was done with a hopper gun.Bottom line is the claim that HVLP has "little or no overspray" is an exaggeration and it shouldn't be the main reason to use that type of system. There is overspray, just not as much as with a traditional gun. The biggest advantages for HVLP are that it saves money with expensive paints and the turbine systems largely eliminate problems from condensed moisture on sensitive finishes.
TJK
well said,, that's exactly been muy experiance..
It sounds like we pretty much agree my post was not solely aimed at you, but to novices who might be reading this post and not realizing that there are two styles of HVlP's. If you still have your traditional system it probably has a ametek turbine you could probably replace it by going through Graingers or a vac supply house cheaper then through the manufacturer of the gun. If it is not an Ametek they should have one that would fit the motor turbine are pretty universal.The only paints or finishes I use are water base so never had any experience beyond that.As to overspray I have found that anything that becomes airborne settles as a dust and wipes off pretty easily. But I live in a very dry climate that may have something to do with it.Forgot to add I would ratter put on two to three light coats then one heavy coat of paint.Wallyo
Edited 2/4/2008 12:39 pm ET by wallyo
This is very helpful discussion for a first-time paint sprayer. You mentioned that a cheapo unit works fine, and the other posters say only use the $700 version.
What model do you suggest I purchase based on your experience with the units you have used. Lowes sells this Spray Tech unit at $300 and appears to be an entry model for HVLP latex spray. Do you think this would work for my trim project in 6000 sf house (and 37 doors)? I'm also concerned that it may dry the paint and clog the gun as you mentioned.
Which tip size do you suggest using? There's lots of references of "big" and "small" tips but to a newbie like me, it's a little foreign.
Also, you mentioned straining often. Is there a particular cloth or material you strain this through?
From what I can see, the Spray-Tech looks like an airless sprayer, not an HVLP system. HVLP requires compressed air from either a turbine (low pressure high volume) or a regular high-pressure compressor that is used with a conversion gun that "downshifts" to lower pressure at the gun.When I was talking about cheap-o, I was referring to the price of the spray gun.
I think you got two or more posts combined in your question as for straining I use cone strainers usually .15 cents each. In a pinch I have used my wife's old nylons too. Flotrol will help with the paint drying too soon. As for tip whatever the manufacture of the gun recomends for latex acrilic. Most guns out of the box have the correct one for paint.TJK I think was referring to a cheapo conversion gun ( one that hooks to a compressor).To me the attachment you posted is not an HVLP but a airless sprayer.Wallyo
Edited 2/4/2008 1:33 pm ET by wallyo
Here is a link to some HVLP'shttp://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10051&categoryId=10742&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10664&top_category=10661
Yikes!!! I'm glad you guys caught that the Lowes product is not an HVLP. But I'm also surprised by the one quart-size spray can on the HVLP guns. How long of a strip of crown moulding can one paint with a full can? I hope I don't spend all my time refilling the paint can in this 6000 sf house. Based on all this advice, here's what I am planning on doing. Hope I'm reading all your messages correctly:
* Rent an HVLP gun from local rental shop. They tell me it's a professional gun that costs $3000 and professional painters rent them for trim works. This will take the equipment issue out of the equation, leaving only the "operator" as the deciding factor on the quality of spray. I guess I will spend the first hour experimenting shooting out primer as first order of business.
* I will crank the heat in the house to 68 degrees, crack the windows open for air flow to encourage faster drying. I guess it wouldn't matter because I wouldnt be able to get around to a second coat until the next day at best anyway with 37 doors to do.
* I buy the Sherwin Williams Proclassic in 5-gallon bucket. Not sure how many gallons I would need for this size of house. I will pour it out to a 1-gallon can through a strainer (where does one buy such a mesh?). I will then transfer from the 1-gallon can to the spray can, add in the dry retardant material, and start spraying.
* Question: I will stage the house so that the gun is in constant use. How long do I have between stops before I have to clean the gun? If it takes me 15 minutes to take a door down and stage its spraying, is the gun still good?
* If there's a cloud of fume, that means I have "cockpit error" and equipment needs adjustments as it shouldn't do that.
Attached is a picture of the kinds of moulding and trims I will be painting with the HVLP gun. Consider this a "before" picture.
You will never get that ProClassic to spray without thinning with water at least 10 percent. Try it at 10, fool with the settings, see of she flows and coats. You may have to go as far as 15.
Floetrol is not a thinner. It is not added at 10 percent. It can aid a little in leveling (that is what is happening when the blast of microdrops placed on the surface flow out into a smooth film) but it doesn't lower viscosity.
Be sure you are getting at least a 4-stage machine, if you are not doing the gun/pot/compressor setup.
Doors, flat, per room, huh? Over 30 of them? I'm surpised you didn't bite on the all-doors-painted-painted-upright-both-sides-in-one-place method.
Gene, after thinking about it more, masking the hinges and painting the doors in place seem like a better idea than taking them down. I thought there was some federal laws preventing this because the idea is so simple, but no one does it that way. Everyone carries to the garage. Why? I would rather mask plastic surrounding the doors and paint on the hinge.
Added to my list of painting to-dos now include:
* Thinning 10% with water. More if needed. * Add Flotrol to slow drying.* Confirm rental machine is a 4-stage turbine and not a gun-compressor arrangement.
BTW, I am really surprised to have this much disagreement on HVLP versus airless. Everyone is so convinced their gun works best for them. I think it comes down to trying it out for myself and see how it works.
"I think it comes down to trying it out for myself and see how it works. " That sum it up the best! I would think that the machine at the price you described is a four stage. But if it is a three stage I would not worry about it too much, I have never used more then a three stage. If a two stage walk away.
A gun-compressor-pressurepot setup is a far more flexible way of pushing ProClassic, particularly if you are using that 19c gun I showed a pic of.
That gun alone costs more than a lot of three-stage turbine setups.
Most of my painters paint the doors in place and just mask the hinges. There may be some cleaning of the hinges required after, depending on how good you are with the tape - a sharp razor knife helps with tape application. A good taper requires almost no cleaning of the hinges. Denatured alcohol is used for this. It works the same as that "Goof Off" stuff but is 1/8th the cost. The knobs, strikes and door stops aren't installed until after paint is complete. On the other hand, if you are doing oiled bronze hinges, etc, you just about have to take the doors off because the cleaning solvent messes up most of those types of hardware finishes.
If you do decide to remove the doors you have to put each door back where it came from. You would think that all 2-6L doors (for example) would be interchangeable but they may not be. Slight differences in the hinge installation can make for headaches if you get the doors mixed up. The way you prevent this is you number the doors with a fine point sharpie or whatever where the hinge leaf will cover it up. Then you cover the number with a piece of masking tape so that when the doors are sprayed, the numbering won't be covered with paint. Removing the doors is the first class way to go, but it's more time consuming. If you go this route, normally doors are all removed and staged before hand like in that pic that Gene showed at the beginning of the thread.
Removing the doors for painting is not only first class, but it sure clears the decks for the trim and wall painting in the vicinity of door openings.
IMHO, it takes as much time to mask the hinges as it does to zip off the door and mark it with a location code. Furthermore, the time you'll save doing them in a room full of dominos, and the quality gained, is worth it.
Thanks for pointing out for our readers who haven't done this, that doors must be marked so they go back in the same opening. Not all prehung doors are machined alike. I have spent quite a few hours in Carolina Builders door shop in Raleigh (probably under new ownership now), watching them pound 'em out, and I know how sloppy it can get sometimes.
Leaving the doors out until the carpet folks are done is another thing to consider. Those guys can wreck the finish on a door or two, if they are left hung.
Carolina Builders, Raleigh.... My main building supply. Now called Stock BS. They are great. I also get most of my doors from them. Out of easily 1000 doors I have had a few problems... Once I called my salesmen and said I needed this "POS outa here"... Guy came out to get it and says "Hey this door is installed. You have to take it out for me to take it away." I called the salesmen and told him what my (rather inflated) charge was to deinstall the door. Another guy came out the next day, and deinstalled it and took it away. :-) Had a replacement within a few days. Generally though, I'm very satisfied with their quality and selection. The salesman I now have has been there something like 25 years - extremely knowledgeable in all aspects of building materials. Always helpful and patient too...
The sw dealer should have the strainers, Home depot should have them also.If you keep the gun running you should only need to clean it twice if not once, maybe lunch and for sure the end of the day.Make sure the furance does not kick up its own cloud of dust may want to get some cheap fiber glass filters and put them over the supply vents of the rooms you are working.
also over the cold air return.you will be surprised at how far a quart goes.Do not try to cover in the first coat two to three lite coats are better.Wallyo
For a $3000 setup it should have a pressure pot or one avaiable. Check with the rental place.Pressure pots are at the bottom of the page.http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/qualspray.htmFor the bigger ones you can just set a can of paint in it..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Edited 2/5/2008 12:52 pm by BillHartmann
Not sure if we are reading the same thread or not. Got to admit though that it helps to know who the crack pots are so you can just disregard their posts from the get-go.
Anyway, I'm not a painter but have hired painters to paint a large number of houses. They all used airless "paint pumps" as I call them. There is some cutting in with brushes, and of course back-rolling as the paint is sprayed on the walls, and ceiling. They also use a paint shield. It's kind of a 2 person job: 1 to do the spraying, the other holds the shield, does the back rolling, and minds the paint buckets at the pump. They use a big (18"?) roller for the back rolling. There is a pretty specific order of things too.
Wally -
I think that your #3 is what's called a conversion HVLP. It uses a standard air compressor and 1/4" hose, but the pressure is regulated down to ~15#.
I have a "real" HVLP that uses a turbine and a 3/4" hose. The turbine doesn't cycle on and off and sounds like a shop vac. I've used my HVLP for everything and only latex paint has given me any problems.
All I can tell you is my own experience with a large Graco. I thin the paint slightly, use little Floetrol if any and have painted many cabinets with minute amounts of overspray. In the manual for my Graco they have settings all the way up to asphaltic undercoatings...PaulB
HVLP is used for auto painting all the time. Of course, auto paint is thinned way out. The latex paint should be thinned with water and floetrol, and you would need a four stage turbine. Expect to pay $700, and this is the one I would get. http://astore.amazon.com/fujisprayco05-20/detail/B0000UJI2G/105-2971670-9534019
http://www.fujispray.com/fuji_brochure.pdf
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From http://www.fujispray.com/technical.htm#latex
Can I spray household trim with Latex Paint?
Yes, HVLP is ideal for this application but you must follow a few general rules in order to achieve a good finish.
If you intend on spraying Latex Emulsion Paint (House Paint) most of the time, please consider purchasing the more powerful 4-stage turbine systems. To spray Latex paints successfully, some rules must be adhered to. The latex should be 'finish-quality' (the best grade). For best results, a Latex Additive such as Floetrol should be used (Call 1-800-321-3444 for your nearest dealer). Important* Floetrol is not for thinning - it is a product that prevents the paint from drying too quickly - in other words, it is a 'retarder'. So you still must thin with water also.
Thin the Latex with water - usually 20% is enough. The #4 needle/nozzle/jet setup is preferred for decent coverage on items like household trim, louver doors, fireplaces, cabinets etc. When spraying Latex, please turn the fluid adjusting screw to limit the paint to a finer spray. This will increase the ratio of air to paint and result in better atomization and a beautiful finish. (Factually speaking, it doesn't increase the ratio of air to paint but does the opposite - it allows the air atomizing power to work on less paint thereby improving the quality of atomization). Spray the paint on 'wet like a lake'. In other words, it must be completely wet in order to flow out nicely and look smooth. If you are only seeing droplets on the surface, open up the fluid knob for more product.
HVLP is designed for fine-finishing, this includes... furniture, pianos, cabinets, automobiles, machinery - anywhere a 'Class A' coating is to be applied. If you already own airless equipment, you'll find that an HVLP system will complement it perfectly.
Although there is some overlap, every family of spray systems on the market has its special place. For more information about spraying techniques, check out the books listed in the Recommended Reading Section.
I would also choose the airless method over an HVLP. It's not bad to do if you have the room to stand all the doors up somewhere (like a garage) and spray them with two coats. You don't have to clean the sprayer between coats if you keep the top of the paint bucket covered with a damp towel and keep your gun immersed in water between coats.
If the trim is installed it would be easiest to just do it with a brush/ small roller rather than masking everything for spray. If you could pre paint all the trim before installation it's just a matter of touching it up later and much easier.
I would agree that any good HVLP unit is going to run at least 700 dollars and probably not be cost efficient if only purchased for one house.
SW ProClassic Acrylic is readily sprayed with a good HVLP setup.
I know that it looks like yogurt coming out of the can, but thinned 10 percent, a good gun can push it just fine.
You will want the right tip, your supplier can discuss that with you.
Homestead Finishing will set you up with a gun, wand, 2g rollaround pressure pot, and you can drive the whole shebang with an air compressor (of enough capacity . . . a little hotdog or pancake won't do).
Jeff Jewitt, who will sell you the rig, will advise on tip size, and gun make, etc. Buy from a pro like Jeff (his finishing how-to books are published by Taunton) and you cannot go wrong.
Expect to pay about the same for this kind of setup as you would for a cup gun and 4-stage HVLP self-contained system. The advantage to the cupless gun and the large capacity pressure pot is gun control and position, plus the large paint reserve. A cup gun will need to be reloaded a lot for a full-house job.
BTW, the results will be beautiful. The ProClassic Acrylic lays out a baby-butt finish using HVLP.
And at the price of the SW paint, you'll want the high transfer efficiency you'll get with HVLP versus airless. You can blow enough $30 per gallon paint into the air with an airless, when doing a house job, to pay for the spray rig.
HVLP will spray paint, but on something like a door, it can take forever. I think a brush is faster plus you get more product on the surface. There can be a slight difference in sheen between sprayed and brushed. Touching up a nail hole can show with some paints. Airless would be my choice for spraying the large objects, HVLP for the moldings. Success with either will depend on a lot of things, mostly, operator experience. Type of gun, size of tips, pressure, viscosity and distance from the work are all important, too. HVLP is just a description of the technology. There are many different types of guns and systems, they don't all work the same. SW's commercial department should be able to set you up with the proper equipment and set up on a rental basis.
Have you finished doors using something like this Accuspray 19c with a 3hp compressor driving the whole rig?
View Image
If you haven't, you should try it. HVLP can be very effective in doing large surfaces like doors (and cars and boats), especially when quality and reduction of overspray are concerns.
Gene, I've only used my DeVilbiss HVLP on doors, way too slow. I have a commercial compressor and plenty of supply. Someday, I would like to get a new gun. I do motorcycles as well as cabinetry and use all kinds of paints and clears from latex to polyesters. I've only done one car but I have another waiting for time and cash. Been looking at the Sata RP guns but it's not on the high priority list.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Guys, this is very helpful. At this price, I think I will rent an HVLP machine instead. SW does not rent (in Seattle anyway) so I'll just pick up a good one at a rental shop nearby. On crown moulding, I taped a 12" strip of paper above, and 12" below the moulding, expecting that HVLP won't overspray outside of that. Am I correct in this assumption?
For the doors, I was thinking of painting them in the rooms where they are by leaving them a few inches off the floor and spray them horizontally. I'll just paint the other side the next day. Is there a potential problem with this approach?
BTW, is the latex HVLP gun we are talking about perform any differently than the gun used for oil based polyeurathane product? I have one of those (Lowe's $100) and I am unimpressed by that gun because it sprays a fog mist, clogs easily, and very finicky to adjust. I'm sure it could perform better with experience, but a tool shouldn't be that difficult to figure out in fairly competent hands.
Edited 2/4/2008 3:05 am by Streamline
I think you got it, you will probably find you do not need a 12" mask that a 6-8" will do. But if you have the paper go for it. On the doors that is the way I do them. Don't forget to strain the paint real important. On large jobs I double strain; first from the paint can to a clean can then I thin this batch add flotrol if needed, this is my working batch. then each time I fill the gun I strain it again. Clean, clean, clean the gun never let paint set in it overnight or more then a few hours for that matter, it is amazing at how fast little pieces of dry paint set up inside the can or nozzle if not working the gun. If you start to get spitting or no flow you probably have a little chunk of dry paint at the tip of the needle.Good luck hope this helps, let us know how it works out.Wallyo
I own multiple airless sprayers and an HVLP rig (from Homestead). I would buy the airless. It can spray anything you want for the least expense and with only a little practice you can become very proficient.
You must have a good size compressor to use and HVLP and you have to put an air dryer on it and diluting and thinning paint can be a pain in the ***. With the airless, you stick in the suction end and away you go.
Bruce
I have a homemade three stage HVLP that I use, based on a AMETEK LAMB 116765-13 vac motor From Grainger http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4M921 and two Campbell Hausfeld HVLP guns. Not the best guns but they work fine for wood work and cabinets. The motor cost about 89.00, the gun 50.00, the 3/4 hose 25.00, two brass quick connects from the garden section 5.oo, and a bunch of scrape plywood and elec parts. Less then two hundred total. The price on line on the motor is 189.00 but what it is listed at and what you pay in the Grainger store are two different numbers, usually a lot less is the actual cost..
Is paint is too thick rubbish, just like airless tip, it depend on the needle you use in the gun.
Almost purchased an airless for a brick exterior on a 2000sf duplex, ( it was already painted with dropped mortar), after careful thought I painted it with my HVLP and 6 gallons of paint two coats.
The reason I did not use an airless the amount of paint they use is incredible would of used double to three times more. Plus the danger factor is incredible You accidentally spray your arm or puncture a hose and get blasted you better get to the emergency room fast. Nothing like blood poisoning to ruin your day and turn a few thousand in profit to a ten thousand hospital trip. Yeah probably will not happen to me but that is the same thing the guy with no thumb said about his table saw. Except this tool you may be using several feet in the air, unlike a table saw; loose your balance well you get the rest.
With a hvlp you just need about 6" of masking, an airless best mask everything in the room you do not want paint on. The painting may be faster with an airless but the time you spend masking may take you a half to whole day alone.
Then there is dry time which given humidity conditions can be minutes since the mist is warm to hot. On warm spring day I can paint 200 lf of trim in less then an hour, two to three coats.
I really do not know why people do not use HVLPs more but they seem to have problems catching on in popularity. Okay they are noisy but so is a shop vac and people use those instead of a broom.
With either wear a respirator, don't know how many times I see people using an airless sprayer and not wearing one.
Wallyo
Edited 2/3/2008 3:30 pm ET by wallyo
Edited 2/3/2008 3:34 pm ET by wallyo
Edited 2/3/2008 4:04 pm ET by wallyo
Last time we painted a bunch of doors, here is what the setup looked like. Hour or so to do the setup, same for each coat of finish.
All you need is the space, good lighting, finish nails, and some furring strips for your "railroad rails" as under-spacers, and for top tie braces.
You would get great results with a small good quality airless, such as a graco 290 or 390 and tip somewherre between what your friend mentioned and a 411 (the first number is how much paint comes out and the second/third is the fan diameter). It doesn't make sense to me to not use a filter with finer tips. A 3xx tip will clog easily and is more often used with thinner materials than latex. The x18 tip suggestion is quite wide, too wide for crown.
A favorite painter likes the 311 for all trim and doors. The wider fan patterns don't allow the painter to make multiple passes at the various angles needed to get into all the corners of any details. The 311 is good for details and provides the most control. I have one, but still like the 411 better.
A 5xx tip is probably too much for most things, but can work well when putting a lot of paint on the wall quickly, as when priming or painting walls.
The best investment you can make is in a 3' extension and a swivel head. This way you don't have to get as close to the work, can work a wider path before moving, and can get up to the crown easily without straining.
The painters I use and myself like to prime the trim and walls all at once, caulk, reprime the caulk, spray the base and case, mask off, spray walls, mask off, spray crown, mask off then the ceiling. It's driven mostly by what's easiest to mask off.
For goodness sake get a few masking film dispensers and a case of new blue tape. You'll waste way too much time without them.
Good painting!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I think he already decided to use a HVLP paint sprayer.
I think he already decided to use a HVLP paint sprayer.
That's too bad. I can not imagine painting crown, base or doors with anything but an airless with the 3' extension. We'd send a painter packing if they showed up on a T&M job with a HVLP.
On the other hand my favorite clear finish guns are HVLP.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm with ya.
For those that like our HVLP's and "would ratter have them pried out of the hands of our cold dead bodies before we are to give them up", and are willing to put up with ridicule from the airless sprayer crowd. Here is something to share don't know what the difference is with these verses a baggie but I found these liners to line the paint cup with for 10 cents a piece. I am willing to try and report back they may not be worth 1 cent. Try lining your paint hose you airless people, you.http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94631Wallyo
The airless will move fast but may not be as controlled. The HVLP can give you a bit better breakup but requires a bit of getting use to. This video may help as it shows the two different options though you can get better control with airless by using a smaller tip and or fine finish tip
got that thar trolling line set kinda deep, eh?