We plan to build a patio roughly 16′ x 28′. We would like few/no step down when exiting the house, but there is a 19″ drop from the deck doors to where our brick exterior meets the ground. We were told not not bring dirt above the brick line.
Our current plan is to pour piers below the frost line, then build an elevated steel frame, upon which we can build either wolmanized decking or pour 2″ concrete. I like the concrete…for longevity & ease of cleaning, no weed grow thru, & easy on the feet. My better half prefers the speed of wolmanized, thinks the wolmanized might last 15-20 years.
Any comments on which is better, wolmanized or concrete? or any other comments!
If wolmanized, any reason we can’t place the boards in contact with each other…without a gap?
If concrete: is 2″ thick sufficient, or is it necessary to go 3″ or 4″?
thanks you for any helpful comments!
Edited 3/2/2006 10:01 am ET by glassgirl
Replies
You can probably put the treated lumber edge to edge. As it dries, the gaps will be there.
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Installation time of a concrete deck vs wood deck is about the same. Type of expertice is different. Prep is dif. Equipment is dif.
I would not recommend a deck flush with door sill/ saddle. A step allows water to splash on the riser rather than the door or worse yet the door sill/ seal.
Check your Bldg Code for railing req. I beleive any deck more than 10", maybe 16" off the ground requires a railng. If you are doing a concrete deck you will want to plan for this prior to pouring.
Any deck built above ground - even by 1" - requires a bdlg permit.
Steel frame = $$ if doing a wood deck. Works well with a concrete deck. If you do concrete you be wise to use a ribbed metal deck for concrete which require 4" of topping. Maybe they now have it for 2" of topping. Topping is concrete. Then you have the channels/ ribs below.
You going to leave the concrete exposed or are you going to tile it?
Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Un mil de gacias! for your email! Especially the notes on codes with concrete!
If we do concrete, we're thinking of tiling it, because we have experience with indoor tile & like the looks of it. Though we don't have a clue about the mortar mix, or grout, or even tile required for EXTERIOR tile.
We have poured 2 large [sectioned] cement patios [roughly 20'x30'] when we lived in TX. They came out beautifully and we greatly enjoyed them for years. We are really feeling challenged by the heighth issue......of course I was the one who wanted the 'daylight' basement....which is now causing this heighth problem.
We understand that we have to pour the piers below the frost line. Also, the patio will be 2 feet away from the house, except at the patio door. Given your comments, we will put some sort of step - to prevent the water issues you mentioned. The 2 ft perimeter is to allow easy access to the basement walls, in case it is ever needed.
We would like to just make the footers and poor the whole patio in the ground, but we are afraid to put such massive pieces of concrete next to our basement walls. ..With frost heave, we are afraid the huge barge of cement would eventually move and put pressure on the basement wall. Does this make sense?
Our plan is to build the ground up as high as possible, then make the piers & frame. We have a loader and enough dirt to raise the level...but we still have the brick ledge roughly 19" below the door stoop. We will bring the dirt up to the patio...or within 5 inches of it, on 3 sides of the patio.
I'm picturing a 16x28 mound topped with a slab with a 28' long by 2' wide by 14" deep moat against the house with a short skinny bridge type access from the patio door.<G>
Save a lot of work and expense with a ground level slab/patio, 2 ft from the house with a single step down from the house.
Forms at ground level to bring the slab up about 4" leaves a 15" difference. Build a single wide step access to the deck from the house. This will give a 7 1/2" rise.
Use one of the non-wood decking products to build this wide step, perhaps incorporating a curve into the edge. This single step need not be just in front of the door and it doesn't have to be limited to the width of the dead space you prefer between the patio and house. Just a little further out in scope will give you a two-tier patio that could also extend the length of the lower patio. Probably cost less than the steel frame idea, too.
moat ....with a short skinny bridge....<G> Trollishly true, except we planned to build some sort of planter...keeping dirt approx 2" away from the house...so that plants would be filling the, er...moat
Can we build a slab patio in Pennsylvania?
The 2 main reasons we are hesitant/afraid to pour a slab on the ground are:
1. it might float, over time, and put alot of pressure on our basement wall. How would we anchor it & prevent damage to the house over time?
2. If we pour it in the ground in PA, wouldn't we need footers going below the frostline to prevent cracking? Thus putting even more cement/weight, to eventually float against the basement walls, with potential for damage.
Would absolutely appreciate comments on this!
Thank you all!
1. it might float, over time, and put alot of pressure on our basement wall.
Not so much, really, the house is a lot bigger than the slab. So, it will "want" to move "away" from that larger mass. At least as long as it is a skinny wee 2-3" thing (which I wouldn't want to spec as a sidewalk in PA).
2. If we pour it in the ground in PA, wouldn't we need footers going below the frostline to prevent cracking?
Not necessarily. Putting in a 3-4' footer/perimeter beam around the patio slab would guarantee nothing, really. The forces from the ground, and how the slab is designed to cope with them would be the difference in how much it will crack (slabs crack--the only question is whether the cracks are merely cosmetic, minor, major, or catastrophic).
None of which matters a hoot without sufficient sub-grade preperation. In PA, that could be a hole a couple of feet deep with good fill compacted in lifts, before pouring a nice reinforced slab over all that (which might be a 4" with a 12x12 thickened edge slab). Bad part is that I can only guess. What you may need is a soils engineer's report. Which is not that hard to come by.
For either wood "standing" deck, or slab-on-grade patio, I'd recommend getting a local engineer to come up with some sort of plan. This can be of no small help if you need a permit (which you might, or might not--these things vary widely).
Please note I'm not saying you can't do the project, just that this sort of project can benefit mightily from some professional definition.
My vote is similar to a previous post, a slab-on-grade patio (finished however you desire) with a single step to the house. I'd make the step a landing, at least 4' out from the house (makes for a better "landing space" when stepping out). I'd make it at least twice as wide as deep (and I'd likely use golden section for the proportion) to allow for some "clutter." I really like the idea of a gentle curve on the patio side, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If doing concrete have you considered stamped and acid stained? Just google stamped concrete and you will find lots of beautiful examples.
Concrete. 3" minimum.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Pavers.
Done well, beats the others hands down.
Done poorly, well, you gatta do it again...
Decks don't last. Even though the treatment slows the decay of wood it does nothing to slow down weathering. The average deck is torn off in less than ten years.
I think brick, or less expensive concrete pavers, makes a great patio. The look is much more timeless, and if installed properly the patio can last over a century. And there is no upkeep whatsoever.
Pavers on a concrete sub-floor.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
How thick would the concrete subfloor have to be?
Thanks your helpful comments!
Just pour a slab that could stand on it's own, and add the tile later.
For exterior use, the tile needs to be frostproof. Unglazed tile, like saltillo, won't work because water will get into the tile, freeze, and break the tile.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt