I used to do these things when I worked for a landscaper one summer, but my memory is failing me.
This is the procedure I seem to recall:
1. Dig down until you get past the loam.
2. Lay a 4″ base of crusher run. Roughly level it, hose it down, and run a plate compactor over it.
3. Then I think we used to put down a layer of coarse sand. This is the step I’m not so sure of. But I believe we’d also rough level this, hose, and compact. Then we’d fine tune the leveling as we went with strings and pavers.
4. Finally we’d sweep in some play ground sand to lock the pavers in to each other.
This sound right? Any other advice to offer?
Replies
Brian, this around the house and for a couple friends.
Depending on the size of the stone base, might lay landscape fabric over that after compaction to keep the crushed stone from filtering down. After pavers, I'd use the crushed again, more coarse than sand and better to lock in the pavers. The fines fall in, the larger stone sweep off.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks Calvin. Yes, it's for our own front walkway and then another little one from the porch to the driveway/parking area. Just gonna chip away at it in my "spare" time. View Image
Use sharp sand rather than the play sand. It'll lock the pavers in better and will be less likely to wash out from rain.
After you compact the base use 1" of sand, uncompacted for the setting base.
Use guide strips (EMT conduit is often used)to get it flat and with the slope desired.
Then set the pavers and sweep sand into the joints and then compact the brick with will jiggle the sand around and between them.
Many manufactures have a full set of setps on the web.
Here is a generic one;
http://ncma.org/use/doit.htmlhttp://ncma.org/use/doit.html
Here is a British site with lots of details.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/blocks.htm
And don't forget that you need edging to hold it to gether.
I think that he mostly shows concerete crubs, but you can get metal and plastic L shapes with a stake to anchor them in place.
Thanks for the tips guys. For the edging I was thinking of using cobblestone w/ mortar joints. I can get some of it on the cheap and I think it looks nice. I've only used cobblestone with brick though, so I'll have to choose a paver first and make sure it's a good match. The front steps (at the end of the walkway) are two slabs of granite, so I thought the cobblestone might match nicely. We'll see, right?View Image
Lots of good directions here. The only comment that I would add is that yea I think cobblestone will look great as an edging, but don't expect mortared joints to last. If you're in the northeast you will have frost action which will the cause the joints to fall apart in no time. I think you are better off to keep the joints tight, wrap filter cloth down the outside edge and under the edging to keep soil out, and fill the joints with the stone dust. This way the joints will remain flexible and no issue with crumbling mortar joints.
Actually I put in about a 1/2 mile of brick walkways at Framingham State College about 10 years ago. All cobblestone borders with mortar joints. They've held up really well. You make a good point about freeze/thaw cycles, but these stand the test of time. Maybe it's the base?View Image
I put in a cobblestone walkway, running bond in the field with one row on each side to hold it in. Even with that, I put in metal edging to keep the stone in place. For that "grout" I mixed sand and mortar, about 2 to 1 (as I recall). Of course, the spacing is much larger than pavers.
Dieselpig -
I happen to love brick and sand sidewalks and I've laid a few. I've done them with the plastic sides, and with metal, and with cemented edging. No doubt about it, the cemented edgings are better to work with. Just make really sure you know the width of the sidewalk before you put that edge in, leave a little room for error. Since you want to use the new brick, they run pretty standard and it shouldn't be much of a problem. I think the cobblestone will work fine. There are hundreds of driveways edged with cobblestone around here, I haven't seen many falling apart. Probably has much to do with the footing under the cobblestones and the quality of the mortar between them. It helps if there's some cement mixed into the sand. <G>
I think you are right on the stone dust at the bottom too. I've used straight sand, and I've also set the brick into wet mortar, but I've pretty much decided that the stone dust makes a better base, easier.
On the question of what to sweep between, I've seen nothing, or sand or a sand/cement mix. The sand cement mix gets sloppy the first time it rains, or if you try to wet it in. Gotta clean it right away. Fine stone dust mught work there too.
Have fun.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Brian, I seem to recall hearing warnings about using sand as a locker between the joints. Seems that ants like it and start their own building projects. Some have mentioned other options above, which seem like a good idea.. Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Yes, the ant factor is good thinking. I like the idea of using stone dust instead of sand. I'm glad I started this thread.View Image
there is some new stuff for putting btn the joints of the pavers.some kind of plastizied mixture rather than using using portland.su[ppose to to be able to expnad and contract.can't remember the name of it thosae it at Landscape Depot (no relation) up in NH on rt125.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Polymeric sand.Bear
Were you working w/Brackett Assoc. on the Framingham State project?
Yes I was. I worked for Paul for one summer. One of the nicest guys I ever worked for. How do you know him/that company?View Image
I've used him for treework over the last 10 years or so. He took down about 21 70-80 foot white pines at my house about 5 years ago....had a guy named Gary working for him.....really a master at take downs.
I remember he mentioned he did quite a bit of work at Framingham State. Paul is a nice guy....
That's cool. Gary's a good sh1t. We used to call him 'Bear'. Because he looked like one and on a bad day, acted like one. Was Cooper still his climber? That kid was a monkey. I once saw a big hunk of trunk about 12 or 14" in diameter come down right at Gary. He actually knocked it out of the way, mid flight, with his forearm. That guy is the stuff legends are made out of.View Image
Very true about Gary.....saw him do some scary-strong stuff! Also...very skilled w/the chainsaw....though some of his techniques may not be in the manual.
I can't remember who the climber was, although Cooper sounds familiar....the first time I used them Gary did it all and there was a helper doing the chipper and cleanup.
That's cool. Small world, eh?View Image
1 inch per 10 ft. is not nearly enough slope for a flexible paving surface. The advice so far is basically sound and will get you there, but a minimum slope should be more like 1 inch per 4 ft. This is still only a 2% grade, but should allow you some slight (and I mean slight) imperfections in your installation without getting any spots that do not drain. I've installed over 100,000 sq. ft. of pavers in my life, and although existing grade constraints have sometimes forced me to use less slope, I wouldn't recommend it for amateurs.
Close. Use a jumping jack style of compactor. Plate compactors will not compact the base very well. Expect compaction of about 25 to 30%, so you'll need 5 to 6 inches to end up roughly with 4.
Coarse sand works, but stone dust is better. It compacts harder and ants won't build in it.
Spread the stone dust about 1" deep. Use pipes or as someone else said, EMT as guides, and screed the surface smooth. You can set the pipes up on 1/4" of stone dust so the screed gives you about 1" of material. For long straight runs use long lengths, to undulate up and down with the topography use shorter lengths. Pull up the screeds and fill the grooves with more stone dust.
You can fine tune the elevation by varying the depth of the stone dust, but you will get better results if you get the crusher run to the correct elevation and make the stone dust a uniform thickness.
Do not compact the material or walk on it. Lay the pavers on the stone dust, then sprinkle DRY sand on top and compact them in to the stone dust with a plate compactor. Sweep in more sand till the joints are full. Compact from the perimeter in towards the middle, not from the middle outwards.
Sounds like you know what you're doing Wayne. Thanks for the advice.View Image
I've used square pavers for the borders. With a herringbone in the field. The herringbone works great with curved or irregular borders.
tips
for your base, 6inch is better for NE, and use perc pack its an aggregrate specially formulated to compact for paver applications, check with your local paver supplier, they may call it something else in NE, dont put down 4 or 6 inch of base and compact in one run, this will not compact well at all, do it in several "lifts" of one inch at a time if you want to really compact it well, also, run compactor in two perpendicular directions each lift, do all of these things and you will ensure a level paver install
slope base 1 in per 10 ft away from house
when pavers are down, spread joint sand over the surface and run compactor over the surface to push the sand down into the joints
a regular plate compactor is all you need
Thank you for the advice.View Image
For the gaps between the pavers, use dry, graded sand. I usually use a 30 mesh. Playground sand is too course to really work down between the joints.
Finish off / seal with Surebond Joint Stabilizing Sealer
http://www.surebond.com/sealerpaver/index.html
Turns the sand into something like mortar. Water can still get through but you don't end up tracking the sand everywhere (addresses the ant thing as well, and helps with the weeds). $50/gallon but worth it IMHO.
Sounds like a good product. I'll be sure and look into that. Thanks again.View Image
Brian,
Check out idealconcreteblock.com. We used the pavers for our patio....decent product...good support. There are installation tips on the site.
Rick