I’ve got a stumper here. I think of myself as fairly competent at diagnosing problems that exist in houses. I understand the way they work, and even complex issues are usually not that hard for me to figure out. But this one has be bewildered. My parents live in a 1950’s split level in South Jersey. 1954 to be exact if that makes any difference. The house is platform framed, insulate with r-13 in the walls and r-19 in the ceilings. This is all original. The walls are finished with typical rock lath. 2′ strips of gwb with a brown and a finish coat. There is 53 years worth of paint on top. The roof is a 4/12 pitch and was built with 3/8″ plywood sheathing and typical three tab shingles. It was re-roofed prior to 1986 when my parents bought it. It has solid plywood soffits and no ridge vent. It has un-obstructed gable gable vents on both sides. The house has no known moisture problems and is a very well built house. The roof was stripped and replaced with 1/2″ plywood and dimensional shingles approximately 11 years ago. There is a single bathroom on the upper floor with an exhaust fan that vents into the attic. It’s original and has never been modified. I replaced the original 145,000 btu gas furnace three years ago with a 95% 145,000 btu condensing furnace. The house has central air which was installed around 1989 and was also replaced with a 13 SEER unit at the time the furnace was replaced.
Hopefully that is enough background information and I can move onto the problem I’m having. Recently (4-5 years) the paint on the ceiling of the lower level, which includes the living room, dining room and kitchen, has started to crack and peel away from the finish coat. This is not occurring in the upstairs, and doesn’t seem to be chronologically liked to any of the updates that have been done to the house. I know that the roofers did an awful job of flashing the chimney and that leaked, but that is in the upstairs, and just stained the ceiling. I’m inclined to think that this is a moisture problem, and is started prior to installing the new furnace, but the basement has always been dry, there is no mildew in the bathroom, and the gutters are always kept clean and work very well. The only other thing i can think of is that one of the paints that was used may have reacted with some of the old layers and deteriorated it’s bond to the surface. This could explain why it’s only the downstairs since that is always painted independently of the upstairs. Is this a possibility? Has anyone ever seen something like this happen? I’ve been running around scraping it back to where it’s solid and re-coating it, but it seems like I’m here with new mud every 6-8 weeks fixing new spots. I thought about trying some shellac based primer like kilz, but my next step is to tear out the ceiling in the whole downstairs and just sheetrock and finish it. I think the rock lath is a far superior system, but I can’t be fixing this ceiling for the rest of my life.
Replies
It is true that some of the modern paints will dry so fast as to pull the underlying coats off the base. I see it more in exterior work thogh.
Another problem i see in ceilings on plaster is from old Calcimine paint, but that was used around 1920-1940 so I doubt that is your problem.
Ir does sound like moisture problems and you do have one source of trouble there, at least.
"There is a single bathroom on the upper floor with an exhaust fan that vents into the attic"
That should be vented outside. I've lost count of how many of those I have seen cause mold growth and faux roof leaks in my life. Get that moi8sture where it belongs.
But I still can't see how that on the upper level is likely to be causing the trouble on the lower ceiling.
Sherwin williams has some special primers for bonding and binding old plaster. Take a sample of what you are scraping off the surface and shgoe the top guy in the SW store near you.
Best of luck
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What is the condition of the exposed finish coat? Is it chalky? Is it possible that the surface of the finish coat is starting to deteriorate and the multiple layers of paint can no longer adhere.
from the age of the house.... i'd agree with piffen.. it sounds like old calcimine coating (paint....for lack of a better description, only REALLY THICK )...
it's usually fine until you try to paint over it with a latex.... then the old calcimine starts to come off in sheets...
the only cure is a total scrape, prime and repaintMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
what have you used for primer? When you look at one of the flakes that have peeled off how many coats are there? Is it peeling doen to bare plaster?
Is it blistering or flaking or cracking?
I'm thinking the house is a little young for calcimine, though it's possible. Sounds more likely that the original layer(s) of oil paint have become brittle with time. adding new layers of new paint possibly without the proper primer is causing failure
alright, i'll try to address all of these replies at once. My first thought if I were in someone's house to repair this problem would be lack of ventilation in the attic, and my second would be the bathroom fan venting into the attic. The only issue with that theory is that this same fan has vented into this same attic for 58 years. And the fan vents into the attic above the upper level. The ceilings in the upper level are fine. The ceilings in the lower level are suffering though. The paint is peeling off down to bare plaster. Once the paint is scraped, the finish coat on the plaster is quite remarkable. It's smooth, flat, and hard as a rock. It's damn near pristine. The paint is slowly cracking like a sheet of ice. No blisters, and it's not actually falling off, its just cracking. The cracks show through layers of paint and are rather unsightly. Since my parents have owned the house, the ceilings have been painted probably 4 times. twice before I was old enough to care and probably with sears paint both times. The past two times they were done with MAB Wall Shield. I'm thinking that a total scrape would be the best answer, but there are lots of paint that is still adhered very well. I'd say about 40% of it is failing and the the ceiling is continuous throughout the entire first floor. I'm afraid I'd do more damage by scraping it off before it fails. I'm not totally against it though. I just want to do it correctly.
although a 58 yr old fan may have reached it's time, i'm doubting it's you're problem on the lower floor.The cracking and peeling down to bare plaster most likely enforces the aging paint turning brittle theory. If it was calcimine the trouble would have started 3 coats ago.You shouldn't have to abandon the plaster if it's still in good shape. You'll have to thoroughly scrape the loose paint and sand feathering the edges. On deeper ones you may have to do some filling.I would use a quality latex bonding primer over the whole area (oil primer over the latex would cause more problems) followed by 2 coats 100% acrylic topcoat. SW has a preprite bonding primer or BM has freshstartprep is the big key
Barry E-Remodeler
FWIW I had an a problem that was almost identical (first floor ceiling as well). I also suspected moisture issues but unfortunately never identified a cause. I decided to scrape etc. . Most of the paint came off easily but a small amount took an inordinate amount of time to remove. I wish we had just put drywall over the whole thing.
If this occurred after the new furnace was installed I'd suspect that the lack of air turnover from having a sealed combustion furnace was allowing moisture levels to rise downstairs. But you say it started before the new furnace.
I would have questioned that as well, but it certainly started before the new furnace. I think it's going to scrape and repair for now.