I posted a week or so back asking for help with porch roof support while my house will be lifted. The pictures might help understand the situation. One response from Piffin led me to ask more questions of the lifting company. It seems all they do is lift, any other work required like electric and plumbung disconnect must be done by others. This was true of the other two companies I received quotes from as well. I guess I’m being my own general contractor on this, have already hired electrician, mason, and house mover. The carpentry I’m comfortable doing and apparently they don’t mind me doing it. If I’m in doubt I tend to overbuild, just to be safe. I always do research prior to any project and hire others if I feel it’s more than I can handle. As an example, I’m suspicious of the condition of the sill plate and bottom of the walls and if lift goes well and there is a problem there I’ll hire someone to fix it. Just wanted all to know where I’m coming from. I enjoy home improvement as a DIYer but know when to call in the pro’s. And I’m gratefull for all the help of people like Piffin, Davidmeiland, and others on this board.
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You need to get a detailed list of everything they expect to be done before they arrive. Based on the height of the first floor I assume they are going to be doing some digging to get steel under the house. Will is be possible to do that from the back side, or will you need to remove the decking for them? You will need to get into the crawl space and remove the connections for the water line, sewer, etc. You will need the utility companies to remove the gas meter, disconnect the electrical service drop, etc. What about that brick chimney I see? Mine had to go.
The porch could be supported by diagonal bracing that sits on a ledger bolted to the bottom of the wall. I would probably use lumber inside the house and just bolt right thru with threaded rod. You may want to remove the porch posts, and you may want to devise a way of hanging them from the roof you're bracing up. Probably smarter to remove and store them unless the mover says they will not be a problem.
Keep the photos coming.
Hi DaveI figured I'd use the ledger the porch joists come off of. Basically remove the decking, install the angled bracing, than remove deck joists, porch posts, and rim joist. As you can see the roof is small and the weight shouldn't be a big deal with proper bracing. I am concerned the wood behind the ledger board may be rotted. I'll be cutting out the flooring near the wall inside the house to inspect prior to doing anything. I plan to replace the floor as it has led paint on it, but will do this after lift to maintain stiffness to house. As for the porch posts, they are not original and I plan on replacing them anyway, something similar but a little beefier. The chimney is coming down. The fireplace doesn't work, and a previous owner had stuccoed the bricks, scoring them first so there ruined. It will open up the room with it gone, I might move the stairs to a side wall and really open it up. I'll post pictures all the way through. Did you put a basement in the cottage, the one you posted pictures of last week?
Thanks
Kevin
Edited 2/4/2006 4:41 pm ET by dockelly
Be sure that ledger isn't just nailed onto the wall if you're going to use it for your bracing.
No basement here. There were four 'sets' of cribbing supporting the house, and digging around them was a very delicate matter. If I had wanted to do a basement I would have had them roll the house forward or sideways on the lot--completely out of its own footprint--then excavated for a basement in the usual way, poured all of the concrete, and then rolled the house back into place. That's a much more expensive operation.
The same movers who lifted mine are moving a historic house in town here a few blocks to a new site. I'll try to get some pics as that happens.
"Be sure that ledger isn't just nailed onto the wall if you're going to use it for your bracing."Thats what you meant when you said threaded rod. If the wood behind it is good I'll use either lag bolts or carriage bolts if that was not done originally. House was "restored" in '88 so it may already have been done. I'm not even sure if porch is original to house. Timbers are rough cut but looks like they used galvanised nails with nail gun. No indents from a hammer. Did you condition crawlspace or insulate floor?
Hi Dave,I am responding to this post as it pertains to what I'm now doing at the house. The ledger was indeed nailed to the board and batten siding, that's it. Fortunately, the sill plate, a true 3x6 beam set on end, not flat, is opposite the ledger so I can put bolts through tieing it all together. Given the situation I inspected the Rafter plate (?) for thr porch roof and it to was just nailed to the siding. Unfortunately the plate has nothing on the inside of the house to tie it to in the way of a rim joist. The side porch is perpendicular to the joists and the front is parallel. I was thinking of a few solutions and would welcome your input.1. Put wood blocking between the joists on the inside of the house, anchoring them to the joists and than attaching to them with hex bolts for the side, on the front just tie into the existing joist.
OR
2. Put lag bolts into joist ends and length of joist on front of house.I've read it is normally bolted to the wall studs, but these studs are 4 feet apart and I don't trust it with that spacing. I tried to add pictures but I am having a problem transfering from the card. I'll post them once I get it sorted out.Thanks
Kevin
bump
Forgot the photo, as usual.
Added the same image, smaller version...
Hi Dave,I'm almost done with the porch bracing. I met with the house lifter at another job of his and we discussed things. He also believes I only need diaganol bracing where the turned posts are now. Something occurred to me with all the bolting of ledger and ridge plate. The house is higher in the middle than at front or back, see the picture and note rise along roof ridge by chimney. The porch was put on after this happenned and is level. I believe all my work will insure it stays crooked, the sill plate is either cracked or two pieces were used originally, and the settling has caused this defect. And I have bolted the straight and level ledger through the siding into this sill plate. Total of about 2-3 inches out of level. Of course, the ledger being nailed to the sill plate 20 years ago without the sill being made level would have had the same result. I'm going to leave it as is and see what happens when they set the house back down, unless you can think of something. Obviously to remove the porch entirely, replace the sill, and rebuild the porch once its back on the new foundation would fix it.Thanks
Kevin
The porch is mostly parallel to the house, so I imagine you will have a series of diagonal supports from the eave of the porch roof back to the wall, and that thru-bolting that ledger would be wise. You basically need to pick up the points currently supported by those turned posts. It is not a lot of weight, in my opinion, but you do need some bracing. As you can see in the attached photo my porch has a big chunk of roof on it and I diagonal-ed over to approximately where the housemovers put their steel under the joists.
Re the roof-wall connection, diagonal bracing will add some minor withdrawal force to the nails in that connection, so I would probably add a few thru bolts where you're parallel to the joists, and block and bolt as you describe where perpendicular. Lags into the ends of joists are worse than no good. If you want a really bulletproof connection, use a Simpson hold-down attached horizontally to the side of the joist and run all-thread out to bolt the ledger.
Also... you are having the house movers support the porch floor in some fashion, correct? All we are talking about here is supporting the roof. The floor cannot simply hang from the porch posts.
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"Also... you are having the house movers support the porch floor in some fashion, correct? All we are talking about here is supporting the roof. The floor cannot simply hang from the porch posts."
The porch floor, joists and all will be gone, per the movers instructions. The Simpson hold down sounds good. I planned on putting 2x6 diagonally back to ledger, no sipmson product at HD for doubled 2x4. I'll have 20 in all whereas there are only 7-8 posts now. I'll connect those to the beam holding up the rafters with a simpson ridge rafter tie and diagonal cuts to flush them up with porch ledger. Thinking of putting a 2x4 at bottom of ledger and having diagonal bracing sit on it and against ledger. I'm pretty sure I will end up over building this. My concern is not in what I bulid, rather what I attach it to, thats the weak link.Thanks
Kevin
Hey Dave,Some pictures of the bracing, Simson tie downs, and broken sill plate I'll be dealing with that once house is up. Dropped all necessary paperwork for building dept., they said about two weeks for permit. I may get it done this winter, if mason feels it's not to cold to work.
Happy New Year!
Kevin
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Looks like you're ready. How cold does it get there in the winter?
it can get down to single digits, below zero with wind chill. However this is the warmest December on record and the past few have been warm as well, even though it was cold enough for snow storms. I'll let you know what's up as things progress.
don'tcha just love it when a plan comes together...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I was really happy with how the bracing went, especially the compound cuts off the skewed joist hangers. Arms were hanging off me by days end, 2 2x6's nailed together, green wood to boot, are pretty heavy. All nailing by hand, have to get a nail gun, palm nailer at least. Getting to old for this sh*t. Can't ask for better weather to do this sort of work, actually going to be 70 degrees here tomorrow, a new record. How'd you make out with all that snow?
all that snow sure is making it difficult on the fishing...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Heard a comedian once talk about how he would get up at 5 am, get all his gear, and go fishing. Said he gave it up when he saw they sell fish at the supermarket. For me, catching a fish is a bonus, fishing is the fun. Went to New Orleans the December before Katrina, bachelor party, and we fished the bayou, red fish. Actually tried to catch a few alligators, no luck. That was a good weekend!
I didn't see the original post ? So Help me out. What's the lift all about? What is the objective?
Thanks
A brief summary:
The house has sank around the periphery because the concrete block pier foundation built 125 yrs ago was done without footings. The fireplace in the center of the house has about a 6 by 6 footprint and did not sink leaving the floor about three inches higher in the center of the room compared to the sides. That's one reason to lift, to level the floor.
The lot the house sits on is lower than all surrounding lots and even the street in front is higher, it floods. Not enough to flood the house yet in the 1 1/2 yrs I've owned it but got real close twice this summer, reason # 2.
Reason #3 is the house has a depression under it and the water drains there, works it way by evaporation thru the floor, out the walls and this causes the paint to peel right down to the bare wood. Also some minor mold, seems to happen on newer wood like the bamboo blinds I put in this summer. Had to chuck them all.
Reason #4, the flood insurance will go from $1400 to $400 once house is put back on new concrete block foundation 32" higher.
Finally, if I were to add an addition in the future, wether it be attached to original house or freestanding, anything over 400 sq. ft. would require the original house to be at or above flood elevation, it is 19" below at current level.
That's about it. Thanks for your interest.
Kevin
Hey Kevin thanks for the rundown.
That's sounds like what started off as a nice house is now ? well think of all your learning.
And on the good side- All the work you do will be at the rate of ? 50$ an hour, hopefully.
And when you think of the time frame the house has performed pretty good for that many years.
Did I see N.J address? What area.
Surf City, Long Beach Island, NJ. One block from the beach.
Ive got to look it up? I was born in N.J. and grew up(almost) there.
I looked it up. I used to summer in Seaside hights. My grandmother had a house 2 streets back from the ocean.
Forgot all about that. After looking I see where I was rafting all summer. Cool.