We hve a client wanting a 4″ to 6″ wide shelf attached to the wall to stand pictures and other stuff on. The shelf will run completely around the room. The current design we are trying is a single board about 1″ thick, suspended by drilling holes into back of shelf and sliding over lag bolts screwed into studs. Saw something like this done on TV one time. Does this sound like it will work? I’m worried the shelf might sag to the front. The client wants a rustic appearance and we would welcome ideas
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I can try to get some pictures of one I did like a plate rail.
It consisted of a horizontal top of 3/4" x4" with a flute dadoed in to keep things from sliding off. Under that was a piece of large crown molding for trim and support.
Rip some scrap blocks at the anle of the crown setting. Chaulk a line around the room and glue, tack the angled blocks to the line on the wall. now you have nailers. seat the horizontal rail on them and then fit the crown to the bottom.
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I'll agree with Piffin on this one, you (and the client) will want 'something' under a 4-6" wide shelf just sticking out of the wall. A small crown or bed moulding will "look like" there's something holding that shelf up.
If the shelf will be high enough, you can run blind pocket screws in from the top side into each stud, which will give a sturdy attachment to the wall.
For "rustic" what you probably need are some small decorative brackets, say, every 36 or 48" O.C. (no matter how the shelf is attached). Saw a neat OTJ method for this that was really pretty slick. They trued up a 2 1/2 x 2" stick of lumber matching the shelf. They then ran that blank through a planer with a moulding knife in it to match the profile. They then just lopped brackets off the black on the chopsaw. This was in a cedar-clad cabin, the brackets were actually glued to the walls, and the shelves screwed to the brackets. This was not a continuous shelf, but a series, with different elevations and the like. Rather cool.
I wonder if you could put some supports ABOVE the shelf instead of below.
They'd be a little less conspicuous above, but you'd still have some support.
Better over the hill than under the hill
I've done that. Worked fine.
Esthetics were very different from Pif's. Actually you don't even need lag screws (that I assume you were intending to cut the heads from after driving). Steel rod with a touch of adhesive to keep them from slipping works fine. Just make sure the rods are all mounted precisely level (they'll bend if you have to fix a crooked hole) and have them go most of the way through your shelf. ½" mild steel is very adequate.
Unsure how this comes out "rustic". Mine fit very well into a modern interior.
Getting everything drilled and lined up correctly is easier said than done. I found it better to have the rods sticking out of the wall prior to drilling the shelf. Then I marked and drilled the shelf. Not much worse than going through all that and find you can't eliminate the last ½" gap between the shelf and the wall. Don't ask.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Rods sticking out of the wall for shelf supports is an incredible idea. I'm thinking of trying it myself with some 1" MDF and some ½" ready rod I've got laying around. I will probably pre-drill the 6" shelf all the way through and use the shelf as a guide to drill the studs with a foot long installer bit. I'll put a moulding on the front of the shelf to cover the holes an to keep things from falling off.
By initially installing only two rods, I should be able to slide the shelf off and on to get a perfectly scribed fit.
This gives me some wicked ideas for a show home. Thanks!
This gives me some wicked ideas for a show home. Thanks!
You're welcome. Interesting, your take on the alignment. Sounds good with the right bits. That would also allow driving the pins from the front of the shelf, better than banging on the shelf, especially if MDF.
It's always good to have things that make viewers wonder why it works. My printer here is on a similar shelf, but 22x37". A corner is what makes it possible. More than a few observant guests have asked. Then there's the foot joint on the duplex bench. Two skinny little miter joints to hold up both occupants. Generally only woodworkers know enough to ask what holds it together. Gotta have some fun.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
speaking of woodworkers asking about joints..here's a table I made a few years ago..the rosewood on top is from a wrecked Martin Guitar..the frame is all scraps from bass necks..Maple and Morado..
anyway..ever see a three way lap joint? I did it. It took awhile to figure it out..and even longer to cut it and chisel it out..but here it is..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Legal rosewood going into a table? I won't tell my buddy John, who's buffing out his custom banjo today. Gonna go see his inlay of dogwood blossoms, hops, barley, 2 dates (wedding and daughter's birth), and I forget what all else. Must be pretty tight to get all that on a banjo neck. He thinks it's gaudy.
Interesting joint. Escheresque. Is it the first in a line of exploration? Brings in a whole new element when you design around scraps. Very nice.
The wall hung cabinet that you noticed my using "cathedral grain" originated the same way. Those were walnut plywood scraps from commissions. Didn't like the box after I glued it up. Wasn't until I figured out what to do for doors that it had any future. I won't ever again make curved corners on a tablesaw.
A very different process from designing for a client who needs something for a specific place.
Had another friend drop by yesterday to show off his new Stihl 088. Alaskan mill coming soon. He ordered Will Maloff's "Chainsaw Lumber Making" from a used bookseller. Jaw hit the floor when he learned I had a copy. Out of print now and going for close to $100. You know much about the subject? We're going to play with it next week. I watched Will use his contraption at a woodworkers conference in Utah 100 yrs ago.
Digress from the thread? Who'd do that?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
naw..never had any time to play with a chainsaw mill..Woodmizers and that one Bob Smasler was touting ..yes. My bud in NC has that "Bob saw" I ferget the..never mind it's Lucas Mill..I think..way cool. The woodmizer is pretty much what evryone else I know has.
Whew..that sounds like a lot of inlay..is it MOP? gawd, I hate that stuff..to work with that is..allergic as hell to it.
Yeah the rosewood was too pretty to toss..and the hunk of fiddle back in the middle was a 5th cut from bookmatching resawns, for bass fronts..way thin..ya can almost see through it..so I backed it with paper to get it even with the Rwood..and veneered it to MDF..
I saw that goofy joint in an old FWW..and had to come up with a reason to try it..being as my scraps were of certain sizes and thickness's it kinda just grew from that joint..no plans of a new line evolving..as of yet..being asked to show some past work at a "rivers keeper" gathering this coming weekend..got to dust off some goodies and haul em down to the KY river and schmooze with the mayor and such folks..might be a good in for future work that ain't roofin..
Escher hmmm..one of my favs. never thought about that way..lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Similar to what Piffin was saying. For hanging, I ripped a board down the middle at 45 degrees. Half was bolted to the wall, the miter pointing up and long point off the wall, the second half glued under the shelf, the miter pointed down and the long point against the wall. They nest. The crown molding surrounds a bottom, which hides the secret how it is hung.
Frank Lloyd Wright did some pretty hefty bracketless shelves in the Fallingwater guesthouse, and they are still there after all these years. Lots bigger than your concept.
Steel dowels are embedded in the walls, and the shelves have holes bored into their wall-side edges, so the shelves just socket right onto the dowels.
Just like your idea, only you are using lag screws. We presume you'll cut the heads off.
I would pack the bores with enough epoxy to bed the rods well, and hold things in place with something or other for the duration of the cure.
You might also consider drilling clear through the shelf, and counterboring so the heads are buried, lagscrewing the shelving into place, then pinning an edge facing on to cover the holes.