My 100 year old porch flooring is all rotted and needs to be replaced. I am ripping it out and replacing with Southern Pine 3″ wide planks. A couple issues. The porch is covered. I cannot access the underside, should I prefinish the boards before I nail ’em? Also, it sits on old school 2×8’s, should I put OSB or plywood down or just nail ’em to the joists like our forefathers?
Take it easy on me, i do not do this for a living, but know which end of the hammer to hold.
cheers,
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Well ... first of all I wouldn't use a hammer (unless you're doing it with cut nails ;o) ) Use a nailgun or floor nailer for blind nailing. I wouldn't add sheathing - among other reasons it will raise the floor level by 3/4" which causes its own set of problems.
Preferable material is clear vertical grain fir T & G, pre-primed on all sides before it goes down (assuming a paint finish). Tint the primer with Tints All close to the finish color and use a good SW or BM porch floor paint (cross-linked polyurethane or similar).
Don't be too surprised if rot extends to joists and don't forget to eyeball pier and foundation areas once removed - these often have problems.
If the porch flooring can get wet (and slippery) you might want to consider adding some traction grit, although it makes it harder to clean
Jeff
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/press/trade/2007%20Releases/20070312_porchfloorenamel.jsp
http://benjaminmoore.com/bmpsweb/portals/bmps.portal?_nfpb=true&_windowLabel=contentrenderer_1_3&contentrenderer_1_3_actionOverride=%2Fbm%2Fcms%2FContentRenderer%2FrenderContent&contentrenderer_1_3currentNodeUUID=%2FBEA+Repository%2F48040&contentrenderer_1_3NodeUUID=%2FBEA+Repository%2F30017&_pageLabel=fh_findproducts
Edited 11/19/2007 10:50 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Edited 11/19/2007 10:51 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Southern pine is going to rot out if you don't thouroughly seal it. If you're going to paint it you should use oil based deck enamel. As a primer, thin down some of the deck enamel with an equal amount of thinner (50/50) so it will soak in real well. Let it dry overnight before installing them.
Personally, I'd go with a premium quality teated wood, double kiln dried and presealed.
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See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I was planning on staining it, bad idea?
A good quality deck sealer/stain would probably be okay. I also would like to hear what others have to say.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
What is double kiln dried?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Lumber is kild dried before it is pressure treated, but when it comes out of the vat it is soaking wet through to the core. As it dries it shrinks like crazy. Double kiln dried is when the kiln dry it again after the treatment. Otherwise it will do it's shrinking AFTER you install it, and that ain't good. Also, just because it feels dry on the surface when it's stacked on the store rack, doesn't mean it's dry in the middle. Better quality ptl (pressure treated lumber) is double kiln dried.
On another note, JD is right on about hand nailing with screw-shank nails. However, I think there are issues about using galvanized with today's treated lumber. I'm not sure but I think you have to use stainless or coated. Maybe someone else can clue us in.
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For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 11/20/2007 10:37 am by Ted W.
Edited 11/20/2007 10:41 am by Ted W.
I had never heard it called double kiln dried, but I was familiar with kdat."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If kdat means kild dried and treated, therein lies the problem. Once treated, it ain't dry no more.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Cool, thanks for the thoughts on the project, good tips from good people who have been down this road. I appreciate all the help.
cheers,
From the Souther Pine Council web page:
Just like lumber, softwood plywood for structural sheathing applications can be pressure treated with preservatives. The same retention levels for chemical treatment used in termite-resistant lumber framing should be used for treated plywood sheathing. Treated plywood used in residential and commercial buildings should be kiln dried after treatment (KDAT) to 18% moisture content or less to meet building code requirements. Similar to KDAT lumber, KDAT plywood maintains all of its strength, shear and stiffness, thermal properties, workability, light weight, and economy.
Don't kniow why I copied the plywood section, but it all defines the same.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 11/20/2007 11:05 pm ET by FastEddie
Thanks Fast, I haven't run into the term before. Also, when I use the term double kild dried I usually get funny looks and have to explain it. KDAT is self explanitory, just recite the words "Kild Dried After Treating" and people will say "Oh, I see" and look at me like I'm kinda smart. :D--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Kild Dried After Treating
You'll seem even smarter if you use the right word: kiln"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I was just testing ya'--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Did I pass the test?
Funny story. I went to an all-boy high school. We had a history test that most people did poorly on, and for some reason the teacher decided we could do a voluntary re-test to try to improve the grade. He had a dry sense of humor, really well liked. So we're in the classroom for the re-test, and he looks us over and says "ok, how many testees do we have here today?""Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You sure it wasn't a math test? :D--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
The current pressure treat lumber ACQ (Alkaline Copper Quaternary)has replaced CCA (Chromated Copper Arsenate). The active preservative copper replaced arsenic for obvious health and environmental reasons. Due to the conductivity of the copper, this lumber is quite corrosive and therefore a higher grade of hot dipped galvanized products with a thicker coating was introduced (Simpson's joist hangers for example). Also copper termite shields that are compatible with ACQ have replaced the aluminum types. For framing you can use a good quality galvanized nail, but for decking you should probably opt to use stainless steel.
I musta missed the the pressure treated in the OPs post.....I use galvys for traditional pine/fir porch flooring.
Definetly stainless fasteners for any PT materials!
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Thanks for clarifying. I was never sure exactly what the issue was.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Definitely do not use a decking under the flooring or you will be doing this again in five years or less.
definitely do pre seal all edges of the wood
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To add to what the other's have said, with your current plan, definitely pre seal all 6 sides of each board before installing. You want to reduce/eliminate the absorbation of water by the boards through use of the pre-finish. Even though it is under cover it will still be exposed to some moisture.
The reason you don't want to put down OSB or plywood first is that it will hold water between that and the one-by finished floor. The new floor boards need to be able to dry from the bottom as well as the top.
Part of the reason that your old floor lasted as long as it did is that the quality of wood that was available back then was superior. Today, with "tree plantations" that grow lumber and harvest trees as quickly as possible the resultant lumber is not as dense and rot resistant.
Around here they sell 1x4 T&G KDAT (Kiln Dried After Treating) pressure treated lumber made specifically you your application. That would theoretically last beyond your lifetime in your application. It stains reasonably nice too.
Regarding installation of whatever type of boards you end up using, you may not want to install them as tight as possible. Does anyone have the link to that thread where the guy showed the Tendra floor that was in total failure?
I've used Southern Yellow Pine for several porch floors with varying degrees of success. It's the only reasonably-priced 5/4-inch tongue-and-groove flooring available locally.
Based on my experiences, here are my suggestions:
*Use only straight-grain wood. It's much more stable than flat-sawn (flame-grain), and holds the paint better. Even if you end up staining, the straight grain will be more durable. If you MUST use some flat-sawn pieces, use them in the most sheltered area of the porch.
*Pre-prime the back and all edges, and let dry before installation.
*For painting, a thinned-down high-quality oil-based floor enamel as the primer, followed by a full-strength final coat.
*Make sure the porch floor is sloped AWAY from the house a MINIMUM of 1/4-inch per foot.
*Keep a working gutter installed on the porch roof AT ALL TIMES. Gallons of water coming off the porch roof and onto the floor will destroy it in short order.
*If you have hanging plants over the porch floor, don't allow water to drain through and puddle onto the porch floor. Otherwise, daily waterings will keep the floor constantly wet throughout the summer. Likewise for potted plants sitting ON the floor.
Now, I have a question regarding the ENDS of the porch floor boards. Years ago I read that a length of moulding should be applied to protect the endgrain. That made sense to me, provided the endgrain was well sealed. The moulding gives a nice finished look.
But recently I've been told to keep the endgrain exposed so that moisture can exit the boards.
Just wondering if some more experienced folks have any opinion on this.
Allen
First off:
DO NOT INSTALL A SUBFLOOR ON A DECK/PORCH !
Secondly:
Yes....seal all sides of the flooring prior to installation. A Ben Moore rep. once told me not to use a primer when finishing with their Porch Floor paint. Following his advice, I typically use a clear sealer on all but the face of the flooring.
Finally:
I have never been comfortable using a flooring nailer on exterior wood. I always hand nail using galvanized screw shank nails. I predrill for nails that fall within 6" of board ends to avoid splitting.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Depending on the look you are going for (you mentioned staining it) you might want to consider using T&G Ipe. It is going to be more expensive for the materials ($3.50-$6.00 sq ft.), but you will save considerable time finishing it. All it needs is a coat of oil on the finished surface once you are done installing it. I just finished an 80 year old beach house where I installed about 2000 sq. ft. of it inside, on covered screen porches, and even outside. I used a Powernailer floor nailer with stainless steel nails over strips of 30lb felt stapled to the top of the PT floor joists. The best part is that the ipe will probably never rot away in your lifetime.
I do not do this for a living, but know which end of the hammer to hold
Yeah, I've heard you know which end of a baseball bat to hold, also!
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com