PL-Premium for installing windows
GoldenWreckedAngle
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’ve always used a bead of high quality silicone under window flanges on install but I have really fallen in love with PL-Premium after piffin convinced me to give it a try for putting my SIPs together in wet weather.
I’m hoping to be installing some of my vinyl windows tomorrow. I like the fact that the PL-Premium expands slightly for a better seal and grips like 16 penny ring shanks on 2″ centers when it cures. I also like the fact that I have a bunch of it left over from the SIP assembly.
Good idea or should I stick to type 2 Silly-cone?
Kevin Halliburton
“I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity.” – I.M. Pei –
Replies
PL Premium has me sold big time.
The wide plank pine flooring I'm installing even calls for it........I never heard of using glue for floors till I put this one down.
Be learning something new every day,
andy
ram dass
Thanks Andy - love the Ram Dass quote.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Why "must" it be built on necessity? Nothing is really necessary? Not even air.
I can see that the foundation needs to be built outta cement but even thats not true. You should see my house.lol.and it's been here a while.
Be.....bzzzzzzzz
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
kev- your better off with a high quality silicone based product down in texas w/ the sun the expansion of vinyl is more pronounced . pl premium when cured is not forgiving at all, i love the stuff , for one application when anchor bolts have rusted out, i bore a new hole with threaded rod (5/8-3/4") after it set's up it holds from the torque of a breaker bar. pl prem. is awesome stuff, but for windows, uh-uh. you could try heavy bead of silicone product (dap 35-50 year product) window installation, then around the perimeter a bitumin (ice dam shield) then small bead w/ siding application. thats a northeast application , t. texas has a more sun and the pl is unforgiving hence when expanding the vinyl it could contort the window, with theapplcation i gave above. all the products expand and contract together ---IMPORTANT-- the pl when cured nothing short of a pneumatic chisel and a stick of dynamite give's any movement. again that stuff is unbelivable.... anyhow there's my 2¢.... and i love that name .... abilene.... brown curly hair and white sun dresses............ bear-summer deprieved -
."expectations are premeditated resentments"
Edited 2/28/2004 9:14:52 AM ET by the bear
First of all where do you get a "cents" symbol on your keyboard??????????
Secondly.....I think PL Preemies are a bit soft/flexable when it dries.
Just sticking my fingernail in it and theres a bit of chewing gum give unlike two part apoxies or even Elmer's.
Call me wrong, but just call me..lol
a
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
hey bud long time -no seeum's
pl premium dry's pretty hard as compared to silicone based products. pl is more of a heavy duty adhesive, the dap stuff has a dual role and is engineered for both take pl premium (yellow and black ) put a big dollop and next the dap crap let dry indoor(preferably not on your keyboard) for 72 hours then poke, chew, prod. the stuff is not made in my humble opinion. for window application unless maybe on a seagoing vessel then i'd look into 3-d marine adhesive. the stuff also breaks down with u-v exposure AAAANNNNDDDDD....¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢ WHEW HOOOOO¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢
this winter proved good for something¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢ this was a direct record of my fiscal potential this winter¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢. press alt and the dolllar sign and presto¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢¢"expectations are premeditated resentments"
444444444444444$$$4$44
The cents thingy doesnt work on my new Sony TV puter but sure makes a weird sound.
See ya soon.
We definatly need to get in trouble again...lol
aMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
¢°÷©π²™@
Are you using a windows based system? if so go to start/all programs/accessories/systems tools/character map and all the goodies you wanted but didn't know where to get them.
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wow what a ride"expectations are premeditated resentments"
I'm too lost.wheres Luka?My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey Andy,
My father in law has been building a cabin on the north shore of lake supperior for the last 5-6 years, it's been kind of a family project... anyway he (we) are going to be installing a wide plank pine floor on the main level with local white pine. The subfloor is 3/4 t&g ply and for the installation we were planning on face nailing over rosin paper. I've done a search on this and you were the only person I could find who has mentioned installing a wide plank floor. A coulple questions for you... My father in law wants to use old fasioned square head cut nails, but since they are wedge shaped, won't they lose all holding power if they begin to push out even a little? Is it preferable to install on the high side of average seasonal humidity? My understanding is that some inevitable gaps from shrinking is better than buckling from over compression. The boards have been inside the cabin for the last 8 mos. so there are no equalization issues. He would like to install this winter (dry air up here), would this be really stupid? Thanks for any ideas you might have.
Hey Joe
I used "rose head" nails and on the entire first floor I glued and nailed the planks over a cleaned up subfloor.
On the second floor i went over red rosin paper. I want to see if either or acts differently.
The first floor in the LR I did a year ago with glue and haven't seen any splitting what so ever in spite of some people here saying that would happen.
Some here speak of a certain glue that has expansion capabilities but I forget the name of it but as I said, I had no problem in over a year so far.I know Piffin used straight/cut nails on his wide plank floors and if thats good enough for him then I wouldnt be concerned it I were you.
I nailed each nail on a slight toe nail opposite each other to try and keep the floor locked down.
I also set the nails no more than 1/8 of an inch so when they got sanded there wouldnt be a hole in the floor.
One floor I set too deep and its bumming me out but spose i'll get used to it. 1/8" depth seems perfect especially in new pine.
Be well
a
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Not an expert on PL but know a little about vinyl windows. They need to have minimal exapansion and contraction room. I wonder if nailing it down with PL would take that away? Silicone would allow some movement but I don't think PL would. DanT
Good pointKevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Not sillycone.. Urathane type is best. The Pro series SBR-100 by OSI is made to order... comes in a zillion colors too.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Thanks IMERC - it's been a while since I installed windows and the sealant choices have expanded quite a bit. I'll check it out.
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Do you want a sealant or an adhesive?
There are polyureathane sealants available.
ya know i forgot that pl premium makes a sealant, and i've used that before. if memory serves (5-6 yrs.) it was pretty stubborn coming out of the tube, and had elasticty to it, yeah now i recall pretty tenacious stuff.it was fall, brisk out. my mistake or more accurately oversight. i'm sure it 's just as capable as the adhesive. thanks for the reminder........"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Yea, PL makes a window and door sealer and you fellers have convinced me to abandon the PL-Premium in favor of it. I was a little concerned about the expansion and contraction thing anyway - the nail holes in the fins are there for a reason. Good call.
I have also talked to 4 window installers and they all use a low expansion foam to seal the windows - including my window supplier. A couple of people on this site recommended it to me as well. However, Traco indicated that I could void my warranty using foam although they don't expressly outlaw it. Basically it sounds like, if I screw it up and bow my jams it's my problem.
I've never foamed in window frames and I've never used a low expansion foam on anything. This is one tight house - is the added insulation value of the low expansion foam, applied at one of the most vulnerable area for energy leaks, worth the risk or not?Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Kevin, As sonn as I saw the title I thought to myself, "I gottat get in there to save somnebody from this wicked idea"
Imagine my suprise seeing that I was the progenitor of the concept, LOL
Anyway, I stand with Bear and suggest you moveon and stick to using the PL Premi8um for sticking things permanently. I might even imagine that when the PL geyts hared and the vinyl wants to expand or shrink, that you might find a broken bond, knowing how hard it is to bond to vinyl.
For window installation, I back up with Vycor and nail the fins, then use Geocel to butt the trim or casing into. Geocel sticks good to anything and has something like 800% elongation capacity. Sashco has a simnilar product. I haven't used the PL product but can assume it is good too.
edit - Oh yeah, I always stick 'em in with low expansion foam after the exterior trim is on too. I don't make any attempt to fill the cavity, just run the slim fill tube out around the perimeter slow enough to get an inch or so, that wayt between being low expansion and not filling tight, I have never had it bow the jambs. Generally the time to do this is just before going home at night, then it is hardened up by morning so nobody has to be cussing me for sticky all over their hands and tools.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 2/28/2004 2:14:29 PM ET by piffin
piffin,
I've learned a lot here - one of the biggest things is, don't do anything unconventional without checking it out here first.
Thanks for the specific recommendations on alternatives. I'll check them out tomorrow. I'm sure the windows I put in today are acceptable, but the rest of them are gonna get piffinated. Ah-Pree-shate-cha!Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
you might want to cut some spreaders for the windoe low expansion or not could belly the jambs inward........just another
1/2¢ worth"expectations are premeditated resentments"
Spreaders - 'nother good plan. Thanks bear.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Great Stuff make 3 flavor of the aerosol canned that is available in most BB stores and hardware stores (they have some other that work with the gun systems). Normal expanding, minimal expanding, and window and door.
The normal expanding expands about 6 time, if I remember correctly and I think that if you used too much around the sillplate that you could lift a the house off the foundation.
The minal expands about 3 times.
The window and door foam is a different chemistry. It cost about 50% more than the others and has a much short live span once you start using it. I am guessin that the expansion might be about 1.5. And it is a really soft foam.
Now I used used it to "set" a door and filled up the whole space and then used a bread knife to cut off the excess. It did not appear to put any pressure on the frame (wood casing).
BTW, this was not FHB, from BTIWBSAPWABOW (better than it was but still a pig with a bow) home building.
The door was in a rough cut opening in a concrete wall. On the hing side the opening was from 1/8" to 3" clearance and on the latch side 1/4 - 1".
The head jamb was directly nailed to some framing above. The bottom of the hinge jamb was jambed into the concrete floor. Nothing else was holding the jamp other than the casing on the inside and some panneleling on the garage side.
The door was out of plumb by over 1". I was able to drive the hinge jamb to with 1/4" plumb. The at the top where there where large gabs I cut a several irregular shapes of wood and was able to glue them to the concerete with PL-premium. Then I put a couple of long screws in thru the top hing to pull the jamp back in line. Done a that the bottom I cut a coupel of wedges and glued them it.
I was able to get in a couple strips of wood glued to the conrete on the latch side and then pin the jamb in place with a couple of finish nails and wedges.
Then I foamed all of the gabs. Not only for air sealing to to help lock the door in place.
I have always shyed away from the idea of foaming vinyl frames, Traco's leery response to my inquiry kind of solidified it for me - sounds like I could stand to learn a thing or two about it.
Thanks for the informative post - good job on the "engineering."Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
The no expanding foam works well with vynal windows but just don't go crazy with it. You can always add a little more
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Sikaflex 1a is my choice behind window fins. It's a poly sealant.