I’ve got an un-sided wall that I need to do some work on high up on a gable end. For various reasons ladders and scaff are difficult to use in this location.
Does anyone know of a steel brace that can be fastened through to studs that will hold up a plank? See the pic.
Thanks,
Scott.
Replies
>>>Interior finish would be
>>>Interior finish would be compromised if this is the case.
Why is that? The vision I had was to use 3" screws through the brace, through the sheathing, and into the 2x6 studs. Does the unit you describe pentrate further?
Scott, the homemade brackets I did were 2x6 angled and bolted to the stud (2x6 also). However the brackets I saw a while ago were steel and hooked around the backside of the stud and were fastened also I believe.
Lemme do a search and see if I can find them.
A builder that used to frequent here used some-Dieselpig. If all else fails I'll email him for some info.
>>>However the brackets I saw
>>>However the brackets I saw a while ago were steel and hooked around the backside of the stud and were fastened also I believe.
That explains the concern about interior finish. Not an option for me, unfortunately.
This is one that I was thinking of that probably won't work either.
http://www.wallwalker.com/
Scott, I'm convinced after searching that this is such an unsafe method that any that were on the market are probably gone.
check this out.
http://www.doli.state.mn.us/OSHA/PDF/hazalert_carpbrackets.pdf
Essentially this talks about Carpenters brackets and the pitfalls.
>>>Scott, I'm convinced
>>>Scott, I'm convinced after searching that this is such an unsafe method that any that were on the market are probably gone.
Yeah, you're probably right.
If I can figure out a way to get a ladder in there, I might be able to use the ones that support a plank off the rungs of a ladder:
http://www.amazon.com/Qual-Craft-2420-Aluminum-Two-Rung-Ladder/dp/B0002YP3AG
I really appreciate your time, thanks.
Glad I couldn't help out very much.
Ladder jacks are ok, again, not for the timid.
Limited in the set up because of stand off of the ladders.........and the need to get the plank across.
Pump jacks? Need a ladder to anchor the brackets and poles, but after that, all loading on the ground and one man (if you must) raising up to where you get the view.
Or, a genie lift which isn't made for a man, but feasible.
That is the one we use. My guys will jump on them before they will set up pump jacks any day. personally, I like pump jacks, but these ae a good choice three stories up on a new frame, to do the fascia and sofit, and start up the roof. Then we set pump jacks to the fascia later to walk up the siding.
Sounds like the best and easiest thing here is to just rent a arial lift for a day or two. Problem solved.
This appears to be roughly what you're talking about, though it's hard to tell what the attachment scheme is: http://www.daytonsuperior.com/a01_CoilsTiesRodsNuts73_A-90.html
>>>though it's hard to tell
>>>though it's hard to tell what the attachment scheme is
And there's the rub.... it relies on a steel plate on the opposite side of the wall to hold it. Sort of like the ones that Calvin was suggesting that reached around to the other side of the studs.
After some serious pondering today I've decided that a ladder jack may work at one end of the plank, and a roof jack planted on a hip roof at the other. We'll see.
Thanks a mil.
Scott.
You could always build your own scaffolding. Sometimes that's the only way to go.
I've worked off of roof jacks, ladder jacks, pump jacks (wooden poles), alumapoles, pipe scaffolding, and a mechanical lift.
My thoughts are:
1)Roof jacks are needed when they're needed.
2) Ladder jacks are quick but they can be scary up high. Nice to have some kind of safety plank or pic behind you.
3)Pump jacks (wooden poles) are tempermental and can be absolutely terrifying, but they're cheap.
4) Alumapoles are nice when you have to walk back and forth alot vs. staying in one place and are especially nice when you've got good pics and safety nets, but they can be pricey if you buy them new.
5) Pipe scaffolding is really nice, particularly if you're going to be working in one area for awhile. It can be expensive to buy especially if you get the proper bases, outriggers, grouser bars and accessories, but it lasts forever if stored out of the weather, and it is surprisingly cheap to rent. I bought mine new at Scaffoldmart.com but it often comes up on Craig's List. The reason I bought new was to make sure all the accessories were compatible.
6) A mechanical lift (JLG, Genie, Grove etc) is very nice but the one disadvantage I see is if you have to work across the broad face of a building, the alumapole type set up will be better for efficiency. The larger self-propelled ones gain their stability from their massive weight vs the smaller towable ones that gain their stability from the outriggers so you've got to consider what you're driving over.
The balance point between safety and productivity is really up to you. I tend to be extra cautious but I've seen people taking what I would consider to be unnecessary risks on pipe scaffolding and I've worked on rusty wooden pump jacks 30 feet up and felt absolutely safe and secure because I know I placed them and braced them.
Another thing to consider is getting help with the hardest, or more dangerous part of the set up. Asking or paying a friend to help set poles or carry the other end of the pic up to the ladder jack doesn't take long and can really make your life easier and safer.
If I were you and this job needed to be repeated every five or even ten years, I'd think a long time about all the different options with the different systems to get you up in the air and consider safety, cost (rent vs buy), ease of set up, ease of storage, and anything else I haven't thought of.
>>>and anything else I
>>>and anything else I haven't thought of.
That was a heck of a summary, thanks.
I think I'll start with the ladder and roof jack combo.
...and yes, I'll be wearing a climbing harness and rope tied off to the ridge beam.
We use wall jacks that look just like that. They are made of steel and haVE A 3/4" WALBOLT ABOUT 8" Long with a large wing nut for inside the wal. We place a scrap of 2x6 or 2x8 with a hoile drilled in it on the inside of the studwall so the load is carried on at least two studs. Drill hole in the shething and set the bracket to that, the the 2x8 "washer" on the inside.
>>>We use wall jacks that
>>>We use wall jacks that look just like that.
Thanks for that, but this house is finished on the interior.
How high is high? How much weight is involved? How long are you going to be working off this rigging?
It sounds like you've got a roof in the way, at least on one side. Are there any windows you can hook a bracket into?
I've also made brackets that pressure fit against walls.
When I've got a weird staging problem, I talk to one my painters. They have to figure out some strange accesses.
Any pics?
The pucker factor can be fun<G>
>>>It sounds like you've got
>>>It sounds like you've got a roof in the way, at least on one side.
You've obviously got a keen ability to visualize things. Yes, there are a number of obstacles in the way, creating some serious "pucker factor" (at least for my abilities).
These include deck, hip roof hung off of gable end, and a rock wall that creates a pit where I would normally put scaff. I'll shoot some pics and post tomorrow.
Here's the problem, and a carpy drawing showing what I'm thinking.
Heck, just run a plank across from that deck, stand a ladder on it, and you're good to go!
>>>Heck, just run a plank
>>>Heck, just run a plank across from that deck, stand a ladder on it, and you're good to go!
LOL. I have have done just that for some jobs. But this job involves ripping the sheathing off to replace insulation that birds have been nesting in, putting it back on, then applying wall shingles. I really need a plank to walk back and forth.
The picture is worth a thousand words.
Here's what I would do, I think.
Hook a padded ladder over that ridge on the metal roof. You could make one if you have to.
Use another ladder with a ladder jack like you have pictured.
Plank from one to the other, move up as necessary. No penetrations necessary into that metal roof. Put a cleat on the right end of the plank so it hooks onto the rung of the ladder you've got on the roof.
And of course, remove any stakes and other puncturing objects from below.
Best of luck.
>>>Hook a padded ladder over
>>>Hook a padded ladder over that ridge on the metal roof. You could make one if you have to.
I'll definitely start with that, and I do have ladder hooks. It may work.
But if you look at the first pic, you'll see a 2' deep overhang which sets the hook (and ladder) quite far back from the wall.
So plan B might be the the roof jacks.
Plan C could be to use a ladder like you describe, but instead of a hook I've got some strips of nylon webbing which you loop around a rung, remove a fastener, and drive it back through the webbing. It's made specifically for securing ladders to metal roofs.
I'll let you know what I end up doing.
I've always had quite a keen grasp of the obvious<G>
Personally, I'd have everytning mentioned above on the job. I have a plywood roof hook I made for metal, and I use split pipe insulation on the ladder rails.
Metal pipe strap works well for fastening roof jacks after removing and replacing the roofing screws..
Looks like you could lay a ladder on the roof, under the overhang.
Some old couch cushions from padding and keeping stuff sliding.
Brace to keep bouncing down... and good luck... or like I said, get a painter to help you LOL
>>>Looks like you could lay a
>>>Looks like you could lay a ladder on the roof, under the overhang.
'zackly. That's what I'm using the nylong webbing for, although your idea of the piping strap would work too as long as I'm careful not to scratch the roof with it.
I'm going to give it a go this Saturday. I'd like to get it cleaned up and buttoned up before this year's birds return to take up residence.
There is plastic strapping! Also works well for tying tops of laddders to walls, roofs... etc.
And stake (or tie off) the bottom of a ladder layed on a roof.
When I was a kd the builder I worked for used to make his own brackets out of plywood & 2X4s. He would run a long 2x4 from 90 degree angle (between the plywood) to the ground and stake it. The weight keeps the planks and brackets to the wall so no finish is disturbed.
I was too young to remember all the bracing details and I don't know what would keep the system from racking. So every time I've stsrted to use them now a days I chicken out.
If any one knows what i'm talking about and where to find some plans I would appreciate an Email. I can't find any plans anywhere.
Paddy
Don't risk serious injury, rent an arial lift if you can operate it on the site. If the terrain is suspect then rent a lull with a work platform. It just isn't worth the risk not to be as safe as possible. Bill the client for the rental. Nobody wins when someone gets hurt or killed!!!
>>>Bill the client for the
>>>Bill the client for the rental.
Thanks for the concern, but the client, who is me, is a complete cheapskate. ;)
I'll be careful, like I said in a previous post. I'll be wearing a climbing harness roped to the ridge beam, and I'll make sure everything is fastened together well. I'm not timid with this stuff, but I'm not stupid either.
However, I just heard we're in for about 16" of fresh powder snow in the next few days..... skiing might be a priority for this weekend!! Woot!!!!!
Ok Guys... time to report back on how this went.
Pic 1 shows how I started, a ladder with ridge hooks.
Pic 2 is setting up the second ladder with roofing screws driven through nylon webbing which hold another ladder to the roof.
Pic 3 is the final product.
It all worked pretty well, but my task of digging out the old birds nests didn't happen. It turned out the nest(s) were behind the first rafter. I had hoped they were simply behind the sheathing. I'm afraid they're in there for good.
Oh well, at least I'll be able to trim out that window and get going on the gable shingles. Might need a lift for the final few at the top though.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Scott.
whew!
If you've got a wife
or a mother, I bet they were sweatin' it.
I might have put a cleat to capture the bottom of that ladder on that plank.
And the ladder to boulder connection is.................rocky.
But you've proved it does work to improvise-eventho you've probably broken every caution on the equipment pictured.
LOL.
>>I bet they were
LOL.
>>I bet they were sweatin' it.
Hey... my wife helped me set it up.
>>>I might have put a cleat to capture the bottom of that ladder on that plank.
There's lots you can't see in the pics. There are cleats to stop the ladder with the jack from moving side to side. The planks have screws driven on both sides of the jack to prevent shifting. And the ladder on the planks is secured with screws and a cleat.
>>>And the ladder to boulder connection is.................rocky.
True. But believe me, I shifted, wiggled, tested, and made sure it was a bomber connection. Perfectly square with the house, and no wiggle room on any point of contact.
And I wore a climbing harness with multiple figure-8 knots for clipping in in different positions. There is no way I would fall more than a couple of feet from any one location.
Truth is, I'm a chicken sh!t, I don't like getting hurt, and at my age getting hurt means time away from skiing. Of course skiing is probably the main reason I'm still building a house six years later, but you know, a man needs his distractions....
Thanks for the keen eye, by the way. And thanks for your help with this.
You're Welcome.
Man, brings back memories. I never took pictures of the near solo building of this place (and no offense meant to those that helped). There were some pretty odd set ups. Probably the worst part of building alone is there's no one to pick up the pcs.
At least now with the prevalence of cell phones, one might stand a chance as long as they can push the buttons.
Nice place by the way.
How about a photo tour some day-and capture the views too-always nice to see what moved you to build.