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I am building a house served by a well, sub pump @ 1.5 up, 10 gal/in. I am required to install a water meter, and have one I/ a copper yoke that compress-fits to 3/4 copper pipe. I will use 1.25″ PE toDEhe pressure tank (set either 30/50 or 40/60), then the meter. I had planned on using 1″ pipe for the cold-water service, but will this do any good after dropping to 3/4″ for the meter? What effect will the meter have on water pressure? Fixture units will be about 26-30. Thanks for any help.
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Ran into the same thing when I (expensively) had my service upgraded from old, mineral-clogged 3/4" Galv to 1" Copper.
The city came and put a 3/4 meter and I got all uncomfortable about it.
After they explained it to me I felt better:
The flow rate of a tube is not only a function of its area. It is also important to consider LENGTH. Because the 3/4" part of your incoming service is very short it will have almost no effect on it. By the way, the tap into the water main, out at the street is also stepped down like this.
The reason why they step down the diameter for the meter has something to do with how the meter works, and I don't remember it because after they installed everything I got to live with no meter for 2 weeks (back log at the water dept., I guess). Before and after they installed it I tried my 'stress test', with every thing on while I take a shower (dish washer, clothes washer, lawn sprinklers and someone flush! - no difference in my wetness).
In other words, don't worry about it.
If anyone can supply the reason why the meter has to be stepped down please chime in!
*Flow rate is inversly proprtional to length of the pipe and directly proportional to the diameter of the pipe to the fourth power.In the real world, roughness of the pipe, turbulance at changes in cross section, and other things make a pretty significant difference but this rule still shows that a very short run of 3/4" pipe will be the same as a long run of 1" pipe.100' of 1" pipe is the same as 31-1/2' of 3/4".
*I agree with Norm and Kerr and would add that the meter, although it has 3/4" pipe thread, is likely a 5/8" residential water meter, the most common size of the internals of the meter. Still not a problem for residential service, it's what everyone has. The only time I've worried about a water meter was at my in-laws summer cabin where they have a 1.5" service line all the way to a 1.25" fire hose on a reel (they're in that California highly combustible urban/rural interface). Plenty of pressure for the house uses (3-10 gpm), but at the 40-60 gpm you'd like to get for a fire hose, that meter would be a bit of a restriction. I usually pay about $50-60 for a 5/8" meter with polypropylene internals and $120-150 for all brass wetted parts. If you're not running gasoline-tainted water through it (like I do) then plastic internals are fine.In the forest, with a 1" copper main and unmetered city water. -David
*Most utilities base their water tap fees on size of meter, at least around here. Standard residential meter is 3/4", but when you go up in size, price hits a steep curve.Recently finished a house with a 3/4" meter feeding 1200'+ of 2" service line and have plenty of flow at the house. Check Norm's message. We set most of our regulators for wells at 50/70 as this seems to give the best service. 30/50 causes noticeable fluctuations in flow, resulting in callbacks.Hope I've been of some help
*I am curious as to what county/city REQUIRES a meter on a private well.Don't you own the water?Just curious.Adam
*Adam,I suspect he's hooked into city septic, and the bill for that could be based on water consumed.BTW, as I understand it, the size of the pipes will not affect water pressure, but will effect water flow.Bob
*Adam: Santa Clara Valley Water District (California's Silicon Valley) is one government entity that thinks they own the groundwater. I have never put in a private well there, but have installed dozens of monitoring wells and extraction wells for businesses who are cleaning up their contaminated groundwater. You must ask permission, then measure the extracted volume, and then pay them per gallon extracted (even of undrinkable, polluted water). If you discharge it to the sewer district, you pay yet again, based on that volume.Bob: Pipe size doesn't effect pressure at the well head or the service connection, nor during periods of non-use. But it can definitely effect the pressure at your fixtures if your service piping or house piping is undersized. That's why the shower gets cold when someone flushes the toilet. If 1-inch pipe had been run to that bathroom instead of 3/4-inch, you wouldn't noticed (but it would take longer for hot water to get to the fixtures).
*Norm, To answer your question...There is no reason that a water meter should be stepped down other than your local utility doesn't want to stock different sized water meters. We install water lines almost every day and we use different meters for different sized lines. The gas companies are doing the same thing now. Using 3/4" meters on a one inch line (just to save a few cents). If it didn't make some difference, I'm sure the manufacturers wouldn't make different meters! The same is true for the water tap. There is no reason that you should have a 3/4 tap for a 1" line other than they can't be bothered to get the right sized tap setup. I bet if you checked , you would see a 3/4" street shutoff too. All of this stuff adds up to a reduction in water flow!
*Sewage cost based on water usage...Yes, I guess I've run across that before, but they were hooked to city water also. (this was a problem as it was a school who irrigated a large outdoor area...nothing into the sewer if you're putting it on plants. Hugh sewer bills for the soccer field. County response? Tough luck.Usually if you have a well, you have septic, so I never thought of metering a well. (Its always easy to get city water if you've got city sewage.)David, ever do any work for/at Aerojet in Rancho Cordova, CA? Your works sounds like it fits one of their BIG problems.
*Just because one owns the land doesn't mean one owns the water. Water rights, like mineral rights, can be separate from from the land - although they commonly are tied to the land and transferred with it. In Wasco County, Oregon, on my 5 acres, I am allowed to draw from my well enough water for my house and to water 1/2 acre. For additional irrigation water, I must apply for a permit. I have not yet applied for additional water, but it appears to be based on the area irrigated rather than the actual volume of water used. Many battles have been fought over water rights. People are often not happy when someone on an adjacent piece of property sinks a huge deep well and slurps up all the available water and thus leaves them with nothing but a dry hole.
*Adam: Most of my work has been related to fuel hydrocarbons: service stations, terminals, tank farms, airports, etc. Plus a few sites with heavy metals, chlorinated solvents (electronics manufacture and dry-cleaning) an pesticides. But I did hear of site in the Sacramento area where they buried both off-spec rocket propellent AND oxidizers. So the ground was burning as these things reacted with each other. -David
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The well is in El Pas County, Colorado, in a place known as Crystal Park. The requirement for a meter is contained in the well permit, issued by the State of Colorado kept. of Water Resources. They also require that I record the usage at least annually and have that info if they want it. The permit is for household usage only; any irrigation would have to be separate. As someone said, water law is primary in the arid West.
I'd like to everyone for the help. I won't worry about the short length of 3/4" (actually 5/8" internally, as noted in this thread). Anyway, I have other problems with the well. Yesterday, I tried to hang the pump myself and failed. I used 1 1/4" PE pipe off a cDEl and couldn't get lower than 200', on a 300' well. The pump installer I calinstalledI was doing pretty good to get that far!
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If anyone is interested, the following is from the pamphlet I got when I inquired about water rights:
Under Oregon law, all water is publicly owned ... Landowners with water flowing past, through, or under their property do not automatically have the right to use that water without a permit from the Department.
It goes on to say that most of the states west of the Missippi River use the "doctrine of prior appropriation", which means that the first person to obtain a water right on a source of water is the last to be shut off in times of shortage. In water-short times, the water right holder with the oldest date of priority can demand the water specified in their water right regardless of the needs of junior users...
East of the Missippi, the riparian doctrine usually applies which holds that only landowners with water flowing through their property have claims to the water.
In Oregon, the water right must be exercised at least once every five years or the right is considered forfeited and is subject to cancellation.
*Here in Utah I am completely confused by water rights. As far as I can figure, there are three kinds of private ownership of water: 'city water' which is the potable hookup to the house, metered and double charged for both supply and sewer. Irrigation water, which is hooked up separately, non-drinkable, and appears to be unmetered and unlimited except in times of drought (every summer) when they limit the days and times of usage. Lastly there are water shares which apply to wells and are more geared to agriculture. I have all three on my property, though I'm not certain how many (if any) shares I have for my well. The most amazing sight when I first moved here was to see a farmer using flood irrigation in the middle of the desert. So much water wasted. And then they complain if I water my yard for 20 minutes instead of 15.
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I am building a house served by a well, sub pump @ 1.5 up, 10 gal/in. I am required to install a water meter, and have one I/ a copper yoke that compress-fits to 3/4 copper pipe. I will use 1.25" PE toDEhe pressure tank (set either 30/50 or 40/60), then the meter. I had planned on using 1" pipe for the cold-water service, but will this do any good after dropping to 3/4" for the meter? What effect will the meter have on water pressure? Fixture units will be about 26-30. Thanks for any help.