Plumbing problem: Need replacement (2′) for 1/2″ copper size o.d. P.E. pipe
My plumber sliced thru an old black P.E. pipe that is used to carry gas. He needs a 2′ replacement piece and two mechanical gas couplings. Problem is no one seems to carry this 1/2″ pipe unless you get a huge roll. Is there any work around splices?
Replies
If he can find the couplings he should be able to replace it with pipe of a different material.
(In fact, if he's going to continue working in that area then black iron pipe isn't a bad idea. )
Not terribly constructive,
...but shouldn't your plumber know how to deal with this?
I don't know of any gas code in the country that ever allowed black polyethylene pipe for gas.
For underground, outdoor gas piping, there is a yellow PEX pipe that is approved, but that's a different product.
Is this damaged pipe inside the house or outside?
As for compatibility of fittings and pipe, if the pipe is truly the same O.D. as 1/2" copper, then 1/2" copper, 1/2" PEX, and 1/2" CPVC all have the same O.D., and there are compression and slip-fit ("Sharkbite") fittings made to join any combination of these pipes--HOWEVER, except for copper, none of these pipes are approved for indoor gas piplng, and none of the fittings would be, either.
This whole thing sounds very suspect, possibly dangerous.
You need to talk to some local code official who knows what's required and safe. It sounds like your plumbier is not to be trusted for the right answers.
Plumbing code
Andy: he should know, but if he doesn't its why I'm asking you.
Rdesigns: This is a california mountain home built 1935. Upgraded about 15 years ago. This community didn't even requrie building permits until 1946. Hence, the black pipe (or whatever was redone since). The pipe is either in the crawlspace or outside. I think outside. Question tho: could the yellow pex be mated to the black poly pipe? I don't want to re-pipe the whole thing and after all it has never leaked so far.
Is this gas pipe for natural gas or for propane? (I'm guessing propane.)
Does the gas pipe enter the crawlspace underground?
How were the appliances connected to the PE?--that is, what type of transition fittings were used to go from PE to metal?
To be more specific,
I think you might need a differnt plumber. The whole set up sounds sketchy to me, and gas is nothing to fool around with.
Pipe is natural gas (city).
I'll have to wait until weekend to look at connections and such. Good questions.
CPVC to poly pipe?
As a temporary fix why couldn't cpvc be mated to the poly pipe for a temporary fix? Its a 2' section thats outside the house. That being said, if this pipe was up to code at one point in time but not now would I be responsible for repair or would this be covered by The Gas Co.?
After the meter is probably your responsibility. But.... The gas company can answer your question better than someone on the internet that you don't really know. And gas leaks underground can cause explosions because the gas will get to the atmosphere any way it can, even if it has to enter your house through a crack or hole.
Know your limits.
As an allegedly humble DIYer, I place great store in what I don't know, cuz I am aware that it dwarfs what I do know.
I do know that gas is not to be forked with, the danger potential is simply too high.
+1 for those who have urged you to contact your gas supplier and learn the facts. If the pipe is the wrong material, I simply wouldn't tolerate it. The risk is just too high.
Good luck.
Finally got to look at cut pipe
The plumber cut it while digging to make an attchment to the sewer line. The pipe is orange in color but still looks like poly. It connects underground to an outside gas meter. It looks like the sewer and gas pipe were run in the same trench which I know isn't kosher. The cut (luckily) is outside and 15 feet away from the house. The fix will also be 3' under the dirt. For a temporary fix we are mating cvpc using shark bite connectors and will test with soap bubbles. Are there more reliable was to test for gas leaks?
Soap bubbles
That's how I've always seen active gas pipe checked. That said, the gas company uses electronic sniffers. I'm still not sure why you're trusting a plumber who doesn't know what kind of pipe to use to do this. Are the Shark Bite connectors approved for gas? I really think you should get the gas co. out there. Google New Milford, CT and gas explosion. Two people were killed in my area last summer, one of them a plumber, by fooling around with gas.
Fittings for this pipe,
Fittings for underground gas pipe are heat sealed and require special tools. They can be rented. There is also a metal wire following the pipe so that it can be located electronically. Be sure this is intact after you fix the pipe.
DON'T DO THIS!
It's not worth the risk. Get it fixed right while the pipe is exposed, It won't cost less now than later when it will have to be dug up again, except to the plumber who cut it and wants to fix it illegally, and possibly dangerously.
Undergound gas leaks are particularyly dangerous because the dirt "scrubs" the gas of the odorant (mercaptin) that is added to odorless fuel gas as a way for people to smell it before it reaches explosive levels.
Amen!
This is beginning to remind of the customer at the service bench of the stereo store I worked at many decades ago. Customer wants to attach 7 speakers to a 4 speaker receiver. He keeps asking the tech, "what if I do this, or this?" looking for a way to get around the tech's statement that what the customer wanted would not work.
After the fourth or fifth "What if I ...." question, the tech replied, "If you do this, you are tuning your reciever for smoke."
As others have strongly suggested, get the gas company involved, anything else and you are tuning your home for smoke.
Good luck.
If this is before the meter then it almost certainly is "owned" by the gas company, and they should be called. You can probably use SharkBites for a temp repair, until the gas co guys can get to it, but you shouldn't bury it.
Probably the plumber is pissed because he knew he should have called the local "call before you dig" number -- had he done so, and the gas co had failed to mark the pipe, they'd have to fix it for free. As it is, he's on the hook for a few $$.
If it was before the meter, it's likely the gas co. would already know about it.
Here
Owners responsibility from line tap to meter. Gas co. sets and hooks up meter to owner installed riser. At road, Gas co. hooks house line to their main.
Problem in the line from road to house-they shut off service until line repaired.
This must vary, depending on the gas co. In our service area, the gas co. owns everything up to and including the meter. Which, of course,
does not mean that they will pay for the excavator's damage to their line.
The line up to the meter and pressure regulator is usually high pressure (60 psi in our area.) After the pressure reg, the pressure is usually less than 1/2# psi.
The OP did not make it clear which side of the meter is cut. I've seen plastic lines that were cut--even high-pressure ones--where the guy who did it bends the line back on itself--like kinking a garden hose--and wires it tight to stop runaway leaking. If that happened, I suppose the gas co. might not know the line was cut.
Sounds messy and suspicious the more I think about it.
rd
I suppose local variations occur. Our line is low pressure.
Our house, I ran 500 ft of line from road tap back to house-hooked up to gas co. provided riser. They installed meter-hooked to my stub from inside the house.
20 yrs later-we needed meter moved on a neighbor job.
Gas co. had to cut line from street (to shorten the run)-install their riser-hook up meter to our stub from the house.
So there's variation right there..........different side of the driveway..............or time of construction.
The Gas co. sends out regular "offers" of line insurance. Everything from road tap and maybe (it goes in the recycle bin unopened) inside-all line repair-no charge, cept for the "insurance". Thinking about it seems to suggest-it would be my cost from road to meter, meter to inside........otherwise, why the need for the insurance?
Around here I'm pretty sure the gas co "owns" from the main to the meter. They install it (was originally black iron and they replaced with plastic maybe 15 years back) and they would expect to be involved in any repair or modification.
Pretty sure it's (relatively) low pressure (maybe 5 psi) and they likely can make repairs without having to dig up the main.