In reading Fine Homebuilding, I’ve noticed that carpenters aren’t the only tradesmen who read the magazine. I’m hoping that there is a critical mass of plumbers who also indulge, because I need their help.
We built a new house 2 years ago and have been plagued by a septic smell every evening this year since the snow melted. Here’s the setup:
The house is a two-storey with a walk-out basement (3 levels in total). The septic tank is on the uphill side of the house (above the basement level), and the soil stack goes up through the centre of the house, emerging near the peak of the roof. The roof is 12/12 pitch, so the soil stack is quite tall, overall, but not the tallest in the world. There’s a short extension on the stack, so that it ends a couple of feet above the roof itself.
I’ve checked the area around the septic tank and our septic field for signs of maloperation, and everything looks good. There is absolutely no seepage or odour from these areas. The odour is around the downhill side of the house only, hence the conclusion that it is a soil stack problem. Our septic system installation guy came highly recommended, too.
The upstairs bathroom gets little use. The shower and lavatories are not yet installed–just the toilet. On the main floor, there’s lots of “action.” Like your normal, average house.
What do you think might be wrong? Do we have to live indefinitely with this stink? Stuff I’ve thought of is: the shower trap upstairs is dry, causing the smell–but wouldn’t this allow the smell into the house? (I’ve poured water into it and it hasn’t made the smell go away); the height of the stack causes a lot of draft, so it “pulls” the odour up and out–but our soil stack isn’t 100′ tall, so a lot of houses would have the same problem in that case; the soil stack is plugged–but our sinks and tubs drain just fine; or there is something wrong with the slope of the drainpipe to the septic tank, causing the odour to flow upwards at a greater rate than for most systems. Our plumber also came highly recommended, by the way, and was by no means cheap.
If you’ve seen this before or have a theory, I’d love to hear from you.
Thanks!
–Rosalynn
Replies
IME it's not unusual for new septic systems to exhibit this problem for maybe the first 6 months until an adequate bacterial colony is established. Two years is a long time.
Have you tried seeding the tank with the appropriate strains of bacteria?
Gold, but if all the traps are wet how does the smell get from the septic tank to the open stack???????
There are normally no traps at all between the septic tank and the stack, only the individual fixtures have traps. That's the point of the stack, actually, to allow air intake so water can flow to the tank without sucking all the traps dry.
With the plumbing unfinished in this house, could there be a dry trap somewhere, or an opening elsewhere in the system? In that case, I imagine the smell would be in the house, not outside, however.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Are you useing clorine based any thing that is getting into the septic? Bleach, drain cleaner, Comet or a powerful toilet bowl cleaners that are killing the bacteria in your system?
Yea.........what AL said. No traps in there as a rule.
Climb up on a roof once and put your nose to the stack. PU! (and I don't mean pick up truck) :-)
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Climb up on a roof once and put your nose to the stack. PU! (and I don't mean pick up truck) :-)
You go right ahead; me? No thanks, there are all sorts of mean ugly nasty germs in that snootful.Religio-phobes should stop reading here ....
_______________________
Worship is not an hour in a building; even in a building dedicated to God.
Worship is an encounter with the holy presence of God!
You milage may vary .....
Yea, but then I grew up on a grain and livestock farm.
It's good for developing a hearty immune system. <g>
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Hi-
Find the cleanout on the septic tank and open it. Does it smell the same as your daily evening smell?
Normally functioning tanks give off surprisingly little odor.
Are there any other potential sources for the smell: neighbors, etc.?
Do you have a drain pan under your washing machine? The same thing happened to my sister in law in there new house. It took them a couple of days to track down the smell, and now they have to add water to it once in a while to keep the trap wet. Let us know what you find out.
Troy
Rosalyn,
Get the plumber to do a smoke test and see if any fixtures are leaking air. A toilet make leak "bad air" but not water. Ask the septic installer for info on what not to put in the system, ie bleach, drano ect. Don't feed the dog beans.
KK
Let's assume for a moment that the smell isn't actually from the septic tank.
Do you or any of your close neighbors have a propane tank? A slight leak in one of the fittings could render a smell very similar to septic odor.
Wow--thanks for all the ideas, guys. For clarification, the smell is outside the house, for sure. Inside is fine.
I'm afraid to climb up on our roof. It's REALLY high. But maybe I could get someone else to do it, for a fee.
We do use a bit of chlorine bleach around the house. I'll reduce the useage and see if that helps. There are very few other chemicals used--I'm not a fastidious housekeeper! Maybe there are milder laundry soaps and dishwasher detergents that we should be using.
I like the idea of opening the lid on the septic tank. That shouldn't be too hard.
We had no smell for the first 18 months in the house, and now it's really bad. So it shouldn't be due to inactive bacteria. Maybe when we get all of the plumbing installed, it'll go away? The suggestion to do a smoke test is intriguing. Could drafting through a fixture inside really cause this type of problem? The air inside the house doesn't smell....
I'm glad to hear that this isn't normal, anyway. Sure wouldn't want to be expected to live with this indefinitely; this is our dream home! (Or was.)
I'll keep reading.
--R
Might want to look into a leaking septic tank. A in ground seperated soil line or crushed one for that matter.
Had any heavy any things rolling thru your yard in the last 2 years? Could be a misshap from the construction days.
Look in the yard for wet or soaked areas.. Raw waste material maybe fermenting in your drain feild.
Yes, we do live in the country, so the dead animal idea has merit. Particularly since a black bear seems to have taken up residence nearby. But, while searching for gutter parts, I've been in and under all areas of the house. Nothing dead. Good thing--if there was, both our dogs would probably roll in it (yecch).
There is a chance that some part of the outside system got driven over and wrecked. But I see no seepage and as I said, there's no odour around these underground parts of the system at all. Our soil is very sandy and the septic tank, etc. is uphill from most of the yard area. It would be strange if there was a break and it hadn't emerged visibly, eh? (Yes, I'm Canadian.)
Somebody asked about a pan under our clothes washer. Don't have one. But it got me thinking--we do have a pan under our hot water tank. The drain is very open and would likely have gone dry over the past two years, though no smell has emanated from it inside the house. Anyway, I poured some water down there this morning. Maybe that'll do the trick--we'll see later tonight when the cool breeze starts coming down the hill again.
Thanks, all.
-R
Wouldn't the water heater drain pan just go to daylight, and not be connected to the septic system?Do it right, or do it twice.
Hi, there.
When I pour water into the pan, I hear the drain from the bathtub gurgle--they're adjacent to each other. So I think the water heater pan drain is tied into the regular house drain.
I poured buckets of water down both the water heater drain and the unused upstairs shower drain, hoping it would cure the stink. For a couple of nights it seemed better, but I think that was just the weather. The wind has died down to nothing again and the stink is back.
Your septic is up hill from the yard???? EEEwww boy.
Sandy soil will allow odor transmission while allowing fluid to be controlled by gravity.
Check for a congregation of dog piles.
If you are in the north country then that 2 ft tall sewer stack is a a candidate to ice shut.....it should be 5-12" tall in a normal installation...exceptions are available due to snow build up areas on the roof. Ask your well recommended and Expensive plumber how tall the vent should be for your climate. I would assume it to be 4" diameter.
Also what type of septic system did you have installed? Is the digestion anerobic or aerobic?
Had a similar situation some 7 years past....the smell became very persistent and annoying as we had 150 people at our daughter's outdoor summer wedding. Most of the night the wind was right....but when there was a lull......SULFuR CITY.
A year later it still persisted and I started digging up the effluent drain to find that the plastic adapter fitting had pulled from the concrete tank due to settling. The 3 inch crack at the top of the fitting let all the gasses out the top of the digester and then it seeped up the side of the tank and out into the air. Rebuilt the effluent side and haven't been "gassed" in several years.
......................Iron Helix
Sounds like a good possiblilty considering the timing and sequence of events.
Never ran across that very thing, but I'll add it to my arsenal.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Ours is your regular anaerobic system. The soil stack isn't 4"--looks more like 1-1/2" or 2" diameter to me. We are in a relatively heavy snowfall area and the roof where it emerges isn't very steep, so you're probably right that it's high to keep the snow out.
We have a fairly large house and I've been pondering the possibility of the odour originating from the septic tank itself. I don't think it's likely. We get the smell on the soil stack side of the house at least as much as we do from the side where the septic tank is (it's off the NE corner). No matter what, things keep pulling me back to that darned soil stack.
Hi, again. Forgot to comment on the propane idea.
I've worked in oil & gas for nearly 20 years. I'm pretty sure this isn't a propane odourant smell. There are no near neighbours. But I like the lateral thinking! Thanks.
-R
No near neighbors = living in the country? Large dead animal in the area and apparent when the wind is blowing/not blowing? Animal dead in a burrow under the house?
Dead bodies have a nasty stench that just doesn't go away quickly.
Joe H
The problem you have is not unique. The replies of checking for dry traps is what I would also check first. If there are no dry trap(s), you may have an issue w/ the surrounding terraincauseing a low pressure which would in turn let sewer smells "hang around" for a period. If this is the case, there are a number of companies which sell a filter (I believe made w/ charcoal) which you install directly onto the stack. I have spoken to those whom have installed the filter, and they were pleased ! You should be able to obtain this type of system w/o much effort.
Hope this helps !
The terrain around the house could trap odour--in fact, my husband is convinced that there's little we can do about the problem because of the terrain and the fact that we are surrounded by forest, which tends to trap the air around the house.
I've never heard of the charcoal filter thing. It sounds like it has potential! We're FINALLY having our kitchen sink hooked up (after 2 years in this house!! Have you ever met a more patient woman!!), and I'll talk to the plumber about the charcoal filter idea and leaky fixtures concern, and show him the septic tank--maybe he'll see what I've missed. Hopefully, we can resolve this. I'm tired of going to sleep smelling that smell, or closing the window by the bed to stop the smell even though it's hot in the room.
Thanks, all. Any other things I should get the plumber to look at, please advise. We won't get him here for another few weeks (hubby has to finish the kitchen countertop). You should see our kitchen cabinets--whooee! Beautiful--almost worth the long wait (I'm sure that once I have a functioning kitchen sink, I'll say that they were definitely worth the wait, but right now, the anticipation is tough).
If it is indeed coming from the stack and it is not very high above the roof then you may be a victim of the air currents around your house. The air flows around a building can take seemingly unnatural directions, sideways, downwards and all around about. So you could try temporarily putting a 10 ft extension on the stack and see if that helps or you might consider a small fan to direct the stack venting up away from the roof or how about relocating the stack vent. Get a smoke bomb and put it nex to the stack and watch where the smoke goes.
I have this EXACT same "problem" with my new house too. 4" stack, not all fixtures installed inside yet, but no stink inside...just outside. Only been running stuff into the tank for a few months now, and not at all full time, not moved in yet.
On cool, still nights, after a shower and heading home, I will walk through "areas" of stink.
The house IS surrouned by spruce trees which are about 40' tall...I think I am trapping the stink in my little clearing...and it slowly wafts around. Tank area is very dry...sand filter area does not stink at all.
My stack is tall...probably some 30', but not quite over the peak of the ridge. Gambrel roof building...goes through the top pitch. Oddly enough, I smell it only on the "other" side of the building.
Been meaning to ask the same question...but figured it was my stack ending a bit below the peak.
I have stuck my head around the old house, and other houses, of course never smelling anything. SO I assumed it was the stack, the closed in area, and also the newness.
I'll try the bacterial flush additive.
I have cleared a bit more space for parking lately...opening up the clearing to the hardwoods out back...and I do think that HAS made some impact as well.
Sorry that you've got the same problem as we do! What a bummer (pun intended). We can always hope that your problem will get smaller as the bug population in your tank gets established.
You mentioned about a shower. You know, our problem is worst right at bedtime. My husband starts the dishwasher after dinner cleanup, so that it'll be finished by the time we hit the sack. What a reek then. But hey, plumbing should be there to be used, right? We should be able to wash our dishes without gassing the yard.
I'll keep you posted on our progress; maybe we can share learinings.
Reread your early posts. No smell for 18 months.
What size is your tank? Any chance it's just plain full and now pushing its contents down into the drainfields?
You don't have a garbage disposal hooked up to the tank, do you? Please say "no". <g> Or maybe I should hope you say "yes" because that could explain the odor.
Yes, I'm fishing for the cause of the smell after 18 months of no odor. :-)
Can't help but think it's related to one of the above and/or the drought conditions because I doubt the air movement conditions have changed all that much.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 8/22/2003 11:49:35 PM ET by GOLDHILLER
Hello,
Nope, no garbage disposal hookup. I don't know what size the tank is, but I can reconfirm that there is no odour or hint of contamination at the septic field or around the tank. If there was a break in the piping, wouldn't we be able to smell or see it right at the ground near the break (or at least at the point where the stuff reached the surface)? Otherwise, how could it get into the air at all? But the ground in those areas looks and smells squeaky clean. No lush growth to indicate any liquid leaks, either. Just a desert, basically.
However, I agree with you. No smells for the first year and a half, then this, is strange. I was sure hoping it had something to do with dried out traps in the house, which would happen over time. But that too was a dead end.
I was up on a lower roof this weekend finishing up my little gutter project, and I got a whiff from the direction of the soil stack. It was morning and the smell seemed to cascade off the upper roof where the stack is, down toward me on the ladder. I thought, aha! Definitely from the stack. So although I haven't climbed all the way up and put my nose to the stack itself, I made it part way and the evidence fits.
I actually called a septic tank guy and asked him about getting the tank sucked out. He said it would probably not solve the problem, because the house/system hasn't been in service long enough to become overloaded. We followed all the rules in getting the system installed; the best installer, government inspections, etc. The tank, etc. were roped off from traffic during construction--the whole bit. But I still intend on getting a look into the tank sometime. Maybe when the plumber comes--I probably wouldn't know if what I was looking at was normal or not, anyway.
Okay, so much for that notion.
What you described concerning odor from the soil stack itself while on that lower roof is exactly what I experienced with new systems and why I stated such in my first post to you. BUT.......this usually resolves itself in the 1st six months.
Since you didn't have this odor for quite a while and now do, is there any chance that someone poured something down the drain that killed off the bacterial colony in the tank?
Warning....here's a wild and crazy notion. When your tank is normally sucked out, there's always a portion left in that perpetuates the existing colony. You could call the septic and sewage suckin' company nearest you and have them first suck out your tank real well in case there's some chemical or the like that has killed off the colony and.......... then have them return to seed your tank by pumping some stuff from a known "working" tank they've just emptied.
Just a thought.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I wondered about the extension, but am too scared to climb way up there. Maybe our plumber is more comfortable with heights. The downer is that it may frost up in wintertime.
I'd wondered about a fan as well, but didn't know if it was practical/doable. Sounds like it's not so far out. I'll discuss the ideas you mentioned with him when we get him in for the kitchen sink hook-up. Thanks!
I had the same problem on a house I built about 20 yrs ago. Finally figured out that the soil backfilled into the overdig of the foundation was not compacted very well. when the soil settled , it managed to loosen the conection on the 4" cast iron line from the house to the tank.
Stinky stuff was being caught by the footing drains and exiting a ways from the septic feild.
I dug it up and repaired the 4" line and the problem was solved.( PU)
JAYZOG:
Your story is interesting. I thought about it for our place. In our case, the stuff would flow down hill along the side of the house, under the step to our back door, and emerge at the downhill end (lowest corner) of the building. This would explain the smell on one side of the house, but not on the other, which is uphill again. Plus we should see some sort of seepage or unusual vegetation there, right? But it's dry as a bone again.
I have these theories about why it can't be anything underground, eh. But to prove them I'd have to dig up almost the whole system. Better start working out; I might be busy this fall.
You said you had sandy soil.
Sand will allow concetrated odor to pass while liquids may not be visable.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
It's been a long time, but here's an update.
We're into another summer here, so you'd expect the smell to be back, right. Well, it's not.
Last October, we got the two bathroom sinks on the main floor plumbed in, as well as the kitchen sink. All three get used frequently. This is the only thing that's different, but it seems to have done the trick.
So, for all those people out there who have houses like mine that are not finished, keep working at it, it gets better.
Thanks again to all who had suggestions.
--R
It was nice to hear from you... It isn't often that we hear the out come of one these projects... thanks...
Glad you had sucess...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
maybe an animal(s) in the attic ? the smell might not permeate into the house, but when the wind blows and the attic ventilation works...........
It's been 4 to 5 months or so since the odor started. The ground thawed in that time. Can you smell the same odors from the 2nd floor. If so, stronger or weaker?
Still have a strong suspicion that it's coming from right under foot.
Got a clean out to the septic near the house? Might be that clean out lid is loose or off.
Probe the soil line. Since the soil is sandy you may find a conceled wet spot.
I have yet to check out the clean-out question with hubby, who was here when things were being installed--we had houseguests this week and it's been hectic. There's nothing growing over our septic tank yet but the odd weed, and the area is dry as a bone (part of the reason nothing is growing there--we're having a serious drought here).
I also haven't dug around for the lid to the tank to check for odours, as an earlier corresponder suggested. Maybe this weekend....
We don't have an attic--cathedral ceiling. Good try. We do get a million stink bugs at this time of year, though. Slow, stupid, and they smell like almond extract. So lots of dead bugs, but nothing bigger.
I didn't read all the posts but here is what I learned on my own house.
Stink was comming out of stack just as you described. Got some of that septic tank treatment stuff that you flush down the toilet. I think it is basically "bacteria in a bottle". Problem solved. Since then, I use it about once a year just to make sure.