I was at a home installing a Marithon water heater, the owner said when you get that done there is something else I would like you to look at.
Upstairs he led me to the bathroom to look at a leaking toilet.
Things went downhill rapidly, it was a Kohler wall hung toilet, the home owner had a local company come in and redo the bathroom. In the prosess they had removed the wall hung and when it was reinstalled improperly it eventually cracked.
It was made in the 70’s and held in place by 4 bolts.
I checked with Hughes supply, our local Kohler dealer, Kohler no longer offers a 4 bolt wallhung, they do have a two bolt commerical unit.
I had heard that some one was making a rear discharge unit, that sat on the floor and connected as a wallhung would. I have asked at the local plumbing supply houses and was given info on an American Standard unit. Also was given a 2-3 week delivery wait for this unit.
The questions are.
Have you been down this road?
Do things line up okay, or will I be tearing into the wall and repairing DW?
Is there a paticular unit made for this app. ?
Years ago I did a wallhung remount for this same type of toilet, and had to replace the mounting hardware because the leak had ruined it. Same type toilet different HO.
The HO has four of these units in all, so one being out of serivce isn’t an issue.
Personaly I would like to be in and out of this job in a day at most, but It might be wishfull thinking. I’m promissed on a couple weeks worth of other jobs currently and would love to have a proffesional quallity quick fix for this one.
Thanks for any info or help.
Replies
Without knowing what type of toilet you are trying to replace it is almost impossible to answer your questions, a true wall hung hangs off 4 bolts thru the wall with a rear discharge, if you have a modification of that design we have to know what it is, sorry.
First let me say that I am NOT a plumber, but I did have exactly this issue in my basement toilet. And I couldn't find a toilet that lined up at the right height. My "fix" was to make a base for the new floor-mounted, rear-discharge toilet to bring it up to the right height.
The base was made from cement in a form that matched the shape of the base of the toilet. It's a bit crude-looking, but works great. I didn't even use the hold-down bolts, which would have required drilling into the cement base. A bead of caulk before setting it in place has been holding it for at least 15 years. I could improve the appearance by skim-coating it with mortar (to make it smoother) and painting it, but in my case it's a basement toilet and I don't care.
This could be a 1-day repair, but not on-site. It takes some time to make a base with just the right shape. There are probably some curves to match. And of course, it takes time for the mortar to cure.
-Don
A Pumbing question answered by a carpenter..
<<things went downhill rapidly>>
1. Hey! Widout gravity we'd all be SOL.
2. This was news to you?
3. A rolling stool sample gathers no moss.
4. Isn't that the first law of plumbing?
5. Followed by the second law, "which way did they vent?"
6. Anybody else wanna jump on his s__t?
Edited 4/13/2007 11:07 am ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Anybody else wanna jump on his s__t?
Not really, that would be quite unprofessional and rude. He came here with a legitimate, clear question asking for help. What would be gained by harassing him?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
<<Not really, that would be quite unprofessional and rude. He came here with a legitimate, clear question asking for help. What would be gained by harassing him?>>
You're taking it a bit too seriously, Eddie. As I pointed out in my sub-heading, it's a carpenter having some fun with a question that's already been answered by those who know.
New York tradesmen are, in large part, rude/confrontational with their humor. It's a benign game that's meant to keep each other aware of our surroundings and avoid certain dangers which may not always be obvious.
Nothing personal, but lighten up, so I won't have to worry about your health.
I'm light, dude. If he had not included the last line about "who else wants to jump in" it would have been more friendly."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
FastEddie: I don't think anybody is trying to harass him, his post is not CLEAR!, now he says that the toilet has a tank, that indicates to me that he does not have a wall hung toilet. Since he didn't answer my origianl post there is little chance that I can help him, sorry.......................................
"If all else fails, read the directions"
There is such a thing as a wall-hung tank toilet.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Explain what you are talking about, I'm willing to learn.
??? I'm talking about a wall-hung toilet with a tank. There is such a thing.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
SHOW ME! Opinions are like a-holes, we all have one, give me information that backs up your post; I don't want to start a pizzing contest.
Eljer Walford Two-Piece Pressure-Assist Toilet (Elongated-Rim) With Right-Hand Act...
Vitreous China Wall-Hung Two-Piece Elongated-Rim Toilet Includes 131-7925 Bowl and 141-7003 Tank- 105 lbs Cubes 7 22 Product Features 1 6 Gallons 6 Liters of Water Per Flush ...
That's a really ugly one. I've seen pictures of nicer ones (more like a conventional single-piece low-profile toilet) in the wife's remodeling mags. Been a while, though, since seeing them there.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I am aware of the type of toilet in your link, but my original post was for more info. from McPlumb, I should not have used a categorical statement, but a lot of people use the wrong terms; my bad. BTW I've hooked up thousands of wall hungs and I doubt I've hooked up 3 of that type. Have a good one.
I got ya beat by 2, I did a wall hung tank type in my sisters house twice, & in wolfgang pucks I did one in the mens room & 2 in the wimmins.
Have ya done any of those conceiled tank toilets by Caroma or Geberit yet?
Total PITA I tell ya.“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
You asked for proof that a wall-hung toilet with a tank existed. A few of us showed you one.
I'm gonna go back and hang out with the carpenters. You plumbers all need to change your tampons.
I've chastised myself enough. I screwed up a post, whats the penalty?
Penalty------- Go read every exchange between Ron & Bob
;-)“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
You lost me, I hope a rope is not involved!!
LOL
Ron = Sancho & Bob = RJW“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
5 minutes in the box.
I did not answer your post because I did not know what to say.
My original post mentions twice that it is a Kohler, I also mentio twice it is a 4 bolt wall hung. Although I did not mention it was a tank type.
I may have wrongly assumed most folks have seen this residential model.
They were used in the 70's in some areas.
DanH and Plumbill Thank you for the links they offer some good options.
The only reason I asked those question was it's rare to have a true wall hung in a residential situation, there are toilets that are wall mounted, but not wall hung, hope your situation worked out.
Not that I want to get on Dan's side---- oops that would be in the Tav
But----- http://www.eljer.com/Products/Toilet/Photo/0917925_lg.jpg“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
There's a difference between opinion and knowledge.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
When I started as a plumbers helper the rules where explained to me as follows.
1. S--t runs down hill.
2. Payday isn't always on Friday.
3. Don't chew your fingernails.
Have good one!
I heard the rules a little different:
Sh*t runs downhill
Don't lick your fingers.Do everything you do to the very best of your ability, or don't bother doing it at all.
The American Standard commercial units they just installed in our building are 4-bolt. It was my impression that the bolt pattern for them is relatively standard.
Yes I was given info on the American Standard 4 bolt at Hughes Supply, and that is the direction I'm leaning currently. It only comes in a power flush unit. Oddly enough Hughes doesn't carry American Standard.
Guess I was hoping for a reply saying "works great no worries."
Yeah, and I should warn that the AS unit (long bowl) has a desire to be a bidet -- splashes a bit.We have some other new units in a different building that I like better -- I'm thinking they're Kohler, but don't recall, and can't swear that they're 4-bolt. And they have a problem with a relatively small wet spot.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I checked the units in the next building. They are Kohler 4-bolt. Nicer looking by far than the AS units, and much quieter. They were installed 3-4 years ago IIRC.Both are of course commercial units using a flush-o-matic type valve.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Would it be possible to find another toilet of the same make and vintage somewhere? There are stores that specialize in old plumbing fixtures, there's one here in Minneapolis that has a huge inventory of old sinks/toilets/tubs/etc.: Frank Plumbing Sales, 6121-338-7609. I went there once to buy a replacement tank top for an old toilet.
Oddly enough in Ohio it is against the law to sell a used toilet. I personaly think its a silly law when you consider the power of the cleaning agents that could be used on one with out damaging it.
According to Kohler's web site, they still make the Kingston 4-bolt wall-hung. Here's the listing of their wall-hung toilets -
http://search.us.kohler.com/?i=1&page=1&q=wall+hung+toilet&u1=q§ion=Bathroom
or
http://tinyurl.com/2f2hxg
They are the commercial series and require a flush valve, but they are available with either a top and a rear spud. You can view the spec sheet and installation instructions on-line to see if the bowl will fit your existing installation.
Paul
I did see these in the Kohler book at Hughes Supply, they explained to me that they all required a sloan flush valve. The broken one is a residential model with a tank bolted on top like a household toilet. That is what Kohler no longer offers.
This is supplied by a well pump, to get sloan valve to work in this case it would probably require a check valve, then a pressure tank sized to provide enough water for a proper flush then the sloan valve.
Thanks for your effort.
My impression of the Kohlers (if indeed I'm remembering the brand correctly) is that they probably require less of a "surge" than the AS units. They use a jet just inside the drain opening to start the siphon, so they siphon pretty reliably and are quiet. The AS units are more conventional in design and just use a big "whoosh" to get things moving.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I won't get in the middle of this, too much...but...I think the vent of the soil stack might be in that wall you don't want to demo. Thats all well and good, but the bolt pattern and blocking was determined during framing and rough in...IN other words, that suckka might have been built in.
Good luck. I got a bath on a job similar to what you describe, and I didn't get clean if ya know what I mean.
Parolee # 40835
I have put in far more wall hungs than floor mounts in my career, but 99% of them had a big ole chrome flushometer sticking out of the top.
I just swapped out a wall hung tank type in my sisters house a couple of years ago, I can't exactly remember the brand, but it was a standard 4 bolt pattern bought from keller supply.
I know Eljer makes a 4 bolt wall hung tank toilet. http://www.eljer.com/Products/Toilet/Photo/0917925_lg.jpg
To my knowledge Kohler stopped making them some years back.
“When politicians and journalists declare that the science of global warming is settled, they show a regrettable ignorance about how science works.” Nigel Calder, editor of New Scientist
There are a few "interesting" options here, but probably nothing that the customer would want: http://www.trendir.com/archives/cat_toilets.html
Crane makes this floor-mount, wall-outlet unit: http://store.irawoodinc.com/cr39fltoreco.html
And they also make this true wall-mount unit: http://store.irawoodinc.com/cr32retowh.html
I think this is probably the AS unit that was mentioned earlier: http://www.kitchenandpantry.com//Product.asp?ItemID=6918
Another option may be a "concealed tank" unit. This generally will involve opening the wall and installing a tank designed to fit in a 6" deep studwall.