Pocket Door from Residence to Garage?
By code, can the door from the Residence to the Garage be a pocket door?
After I get some takes on this, I’ll pass on what the inspector said and the discussion be/t me and client.
By code, can the door from the Residence to the Garage be a pocket door?
After I get some takes on this, I’ll pass on what the inspector said and the discussion be/t me and client.
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Replies
I say probably not. You could make it solid core and a 1 hour door, but what about the seals and being self closing?
I think you could get an adequate seal by tapering the thickness of the door, and put in a weight and cable closer. The question I have is how many of them would you have to burn to get the inspector to buy it.
I wouldn't do it.
Now I'm ready to hear from the inspector and client.
Patience, my friend. Wanna register a few more votes first...
Ive got issues here ! Im going to vote no, because of an old lady might die trying to open it in a fire. Plus the fire rating would be an issue , but I rate incompentance to open it as a more serious one.
Oh yea , I wouldnt do it either .
Tim Mooney
By code? Sure.
By pocketbook? I doubt it.
I have a design that would give fire rating, but then add r factor to the wall. Enough money will solve the problem, but why would you want a pocket door? What tricks do the ho's have up their sleeve to make this a want?
OK, was waiting for 1/4Mg. Now we can procede. :)
Here's the story. Doing a redesign. Archy who normally did conventional houses did client's dome design (btw, 1/4mg, she's a nice enough lady, not at all a ho). Archy didn't get a lot of the curves right, so if the builder had followed her measurements, windows woulda stuck up into free air and doors woulda poked through the concrete shell by, ohhhhhh, 2'. This is for the house pictured in the thread in the Photo Gallery.
So I'm asked to redesign the interior THIS WEEK because the framer is starting next Monday and he might need some accurate dimensions.
So this situation is created and dropped in my lap (I ain't complaining--a commission is a commission), where there are things like the requirement that the HO pass through 3, count 'em, 3 doors (one of which leads through the garage) in order to do a load of wash. Then again to go back to the kitchen or wherever. Then again to the drier. And so on. Trying to clean that up, but getting resistance from HO.
I drew the door from the residence to the garage as a 3068 left inswing. First she said, hinge it on the right. I said, but then it blocks the other door you have to walk through. She said, oh.....oh, it should be a pocket anyway. I said, I don't think you want a pocket from the garage to the residence. Don't have the code book with me, and I know you can use a solid slab door in principle, but how are you gonna keep CO out and keep flames from sneaking under the door or burning through the "pocket"? Check with the inspector...
Inspector tells her that as long as it's a 1 3/8" solid door, it's ok with him. I still don't like it. Don't know what I'll be able to talk her into or out of.
I laughing, should ho have been HO?
Talk me thru the traffic pattern, if she has to use this as much as I think she is going to be hating life. What room does the swing of the door close off, etc.
You also have to say what the framing is here, with you I never know.
Nah, the ho thing was just a joke. ho, HO, works just as well.
I either will or won't be able to talk her into my alternative design. The easy way out is to draw it as she "dictated" it, but I like to add value when I can. Doesn't mean she'll listen. Regardless, I can handle the repositioning of the walls.
My concern for this forum was the use of a pocket door to separate a garage space from a living space, and the attendant implications for smells, dangerous fumes, energy efficiency, flame resistance, etc. I was surprised the Inspector's allowing it w/o any conditions, such as gaskets, etc. I still expect that they'll get to the last inspection, get red tagged for it, and then bitch at me. :)
The way you describe it, the laundry room is situated on the far side of the garage. Is that the case?
If you are still at the point where you can move things around why not put the laundry room adjacent to the kitchen and eliminate the need to pass thru so many doors. Lose the pocket door. Give that HO a basket of clothes and set up an obstacle course that would simulate the effort needed to do laundry. A few trips, banging into the walls and in general being inconvenienced ought to convince her.
Believe it or not, the laundry is on the near side--just the other side of the galley kitchen. But the way they filled that wall with stuff--appliances, cabinets, et al--there's no room for a door without a significant kitchen redesign, which is not in the cards. So why not on the end wall of kitchen and laundry room that's facing the foyer/LR? Well, we want a closet there, and we don't want it anywhere else, be/ that wouldn't be convenient, would it? :) What, compared to 3 doors and a dirty garage floor while carrying a laundry basket in your slippers in winter? Slippers, heck no--I'm using RFH so I can be barefoot!
[I don't wanna portray this job or the client as unpleasant or irrational. It's a good mental exercise. And even though I like new designs a lot more than redesigns, it's still all good fun.]
Your suggestion of an obstacle course is a good one, and I might try that. Thanks.
One more........
How about a laundry room nearer the source of most dirty clothes? The bedrooms and bathrooms. Push a wall here, pull a wall there and presto, a laundry room appears. A giant step an almost any direction and the clothes are back in the closets or dressers ready for use.
Continuing.......
A laundry room backing up to a bathroom could have built-in towel cupboards. Fold the towels, put them on the shelf and close the door. Go to the bathroom, open the door on the other side and behold, folded towels. Same for a linen closet which is commonly found in a hallway. Pack 'em in on the laundry room side and pull 'em out on the hall side.
All great ideas Ralph. Alas, the original Archy apparantly didn't value that sort of thing the way you do and I do, and, with the dome shell already complete and windows already framed out, I'm facing more restrictions than possibilities. A big win for me on this will be finding 10 sf by fixing a bathroom, saving steps by reducing doors on that laundry trip by even 1, and not having her asphixiated if she leaves the motor running too long. The really nice traffic-flow stuff you mention will have to wait a coupla days till I get these drawings out and tackle the next designs, which are all from-scratch.
It would appear that things are to far along for a lot of good ideas, and it seems to me that you have more goood ones than I, but I would bet that convenience issues are more likely to score points with the owner than safety issues. Few people worry enough about safety until it is to late. Is the garage going to be heated? How cold are the winter temps? How much laundry do they really do? Maybe it bothers us more than it will them. Good Luck, and keep us posted.
Dan Why are other peoples problems always more important than MINE.
Yeah, maybe they'll hire somebody to come in and do the laundry. It sounds like they are the ones doing the designing instead of you by telling you where everything is going to be. I hate that. They just hire you to put lines on paper is all, then blame you for bad design.Excellence is its own reward!
>It sounds like they are the ones doing the designing instead of you by telling you where everything is going to be.
Exactly right. She (single retired woman) has noodled with this for a few years now. Only called me be/c the framer (GC for everything but the dome shell, if you will) had the nerve to ask for dimensioned drawings so he could place all the under-floor stuff (DWV, etc). She didn't have any accurate ones be/c of the changes made from the original prints, and she didn't want the original archy to do them be/c of the prior inaccuracies. So I'm kinda like the 3rd-string Quarterback brought in to close out the game for a team losing in a rout (like the Redskins to the Eagles!!!! Ya Ha Ha)
Hey maybe I'll get a coupla scores and make it interesting...ya never know. On the other hand, if I can't convince her of any changes, I may just have to sign the plans "Alan Smithee".
Boss, never saw a Dutch Pocket. Educate me, pls.
Don't think there *IS* any such thingy as a dutch pocket door.
Just thought it was interesting. Laughed out loud when I saw it on the prints and realized what it meant.
I think they ended up using some sort of swinging door - nor really sure, as all I did was trusses on that job.
They said it couldn't be done and I proved it.
Sure glad I didn't say......um, yeah, I know what it is...do it all the time....yeah, that's the ticket!
Well, I'll be damned! Got approval to make the 8' closet into a 4'6" closet and use the other 3'6 for a door to the Laundry! Hardly world peace, but on some days you'll take any victory you can eek out.
She's still committed to pocket doors to the garage. I'll add a caution on the plans regarding possible safety issues.
Thanks for the discussion...
How Deep our the HOs pockets? Worked on a house where the doors from the house to the garage were a custom set of Elevator Doors so the homeowner could get the favorite piano in & out when they were on the road. the inspector liked this.
"Inspector tells her that as long as it's a 1 3/8" solid door, it's ok with him. I still don't like it. Don't know what I'll be able to talk her into or out of."
But just because one inspector likes it doesn't mean it's to code or a good idea. It's real easy to imagine a pocket door being left open (after bringing in the groceries or laundry) or being left open all of the time. Then what good is 1-3/8 of solid wood when it's tucked away in the wall?
Good Luck on the rush job!
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Self closing doors are no longer required per IRC 2000 building code. Seems strange to me.
By what code? would be my first question.
I'm with the others in thinking that this is a bad idea.
BTW - I got a print a few years ago that called for "Dutch pocket doors". Ever heard of those?
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