Like to know whats up with 2x framing lumber lately. Seems like every time I go to buy framing lumber, checks, splits, checks and splits about to happen or after I have made a header show splits full length. Whats going on?Poor drying?Flash drying? Do any of you out there complain about this to your supplier? It sure makes the carpenter trying to do good work look sloppy IMO(for no reason). Frank
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I put it down to the construction boom. It's the same with everything that comes from my lumber yard. They seem to have plenty of other buyers and their attitude is very much take it or leave it. A good half of all the studs I get have at least one wane edge.
I can't wait for the slow down. All the salesmen chasing your business. Lots of free lunches. The way it ought to be.
Boom? I thought there was a down turn in the new construction starts and the market was pro-buyer.
Our market here in B.C. has cooled slightly, although prices are still climbing. It's not predicted to really slow down until after the Olympics in 2010. It is nearly impossible to get subs, and god help homeowners doing small renos. Everyone who can cobble together a set of shelves is now a renovation expert.
We still have a boom here.
Mostly people from Cal. and Fla. trying to move where it is cheaper to live.
"Mostly people from Cal. and Fla. trying to move where it is cheaper to live"Around here we call them locusts. Too bad they can't leave their CA politics and attitudes back home where they belong.Anyway, I have to agree about the 2X situation. Even the Douglas fir "premium" stuff is pretty bad compared to 2x4s I pulled when we moved a wall recently. The older wood is denser, straight as an arrow and almost free of knots. The new studs have smaller dimensions too, and that makes for interesting times when trying to line things up.
Being a remodeler now I'm glad I dont have to deal with it as much as a framer does today. A lot of the 5/4 stock is junk too though. Makes building a deck very hard.
Getting back on topic, what I meant to add is how many times to you go to your lumberyard to buy 2x6's,2x8's,2x10's, 2x12's and have to go thru the pile to find a foot on each end is split. You pay for that .That I can deal with. But the latest I've noticed in the last year is splits going the full length of the boards.If you buy them like that you know in short time they will split in half. Maybe I'm too fussy.The heck with it. Frank
Frankd479
you are correct, the quality of wood is inferior and it's going to get worse.. the reason for the splits is because they are using the heart centers of wood now where before that was left as cants or bunkage..
Now they mill it into wood and sell it to you..
If you understood the stresss in wood as it dries you'd understand why they check as badly as they do..
You either have to live with it or seek another solution.. I offered ICF's or SIP's. Look into them and you'll see your problems have been adressed and solved..
Face it, untill Russia developes it's infrastructure well enough to export it's wood you are left with fast growing trees which will not provide you with good solid wood. Right now the only real source of old growth wood left on the planet is in Russia.
I know exactly what you're talking about. A couple days ago I noticed a check on a 2x8-12'. Sel str Mixed sources. I've never seen a mixed sources stamp before.I dropped it from waist high and it split at a diagonal for about 8'. On a header I had a crack run from the end about 2' after I installed it.This was from a load I spent considerable time sorting at the lumberyard. There was badly twisted one for every four or five good ones. The yard keeps everything stacked out of the weather and is pretty good about taking care of its lumber.I am concerned about the checks taking off and running. Never seen that before.
Back in '86 in Pineland Texas we put a dryer in the stud plant. They would take the bark off the pine tree and grind it to dust and use it to dry the studs. They would heat the kiln to 360 degrees and blow that dust through to dry them. It would take only 45 minutes to dry a stud completely.
Those were Temple studs, top of the line (so they said). I dont know what their doing now as that is 20 years outdated.
Those were Temple studs, top of the line (so they said). I dont know what their doing now as that is 20 years outdated.
Wow, I know some apartments built out of those. Still standing, too, despite, err, 75 semesters'-worth of college students through them (and a recent near-miss by an F0). Apratment boom at the time, and preleased (before construction even started) apartments, the builder griped the whole time about paying extra for the temple-eastex studs, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
paying extra for the temple-eastex studs
You shouda seen what they payed for that German engineered kiln. There still higher today though and that was 20 years ago.
Here in Nac, if you dont use Temple then they consider you a hack. They are a better stud here though.
Legend here has it that Temple made the first plywood in America. Dont know if that is true but it is a VERY large company today.
Frankd479
First, why are you still using studs?
SIP's and ICF's are much more modern and efficient.. they don't suffer from the issues you speak of (which by-the-way will only get worse in the future)
Second, The great studs of the past were made with largely old growth forest wood. todays studs are made from trees that grow as fast as possible which yields up a poor quality of wood regardless of how it's dried.
Third, sure you know how to nail a board together, so do thousands of other guys. The real quality, (and real profit) comes from doing something better than others do it.. you won't be able to do it better if the materials get worse..
SIP's and ICF's are manufactured, not grown.. unlike mother nature who hates to be hurried, assembly lines can make things better and more consistent..
If you must work with only wood, then do so,, learn to timberframe and move up a whole other notch on the skill scale..
They cut the last of the old growth timber her in Rusk county about 7 years ago. The homeowner was saving it but the beatles killed it.( not Paul McCartney and Ringo to all you jokers)
I saw it when I was a teenager. Three pine trees with the largest being 14' in diam. Those things looked like giant redwoods. One tree was 4 truckloads If I remember right. They had to ship it up north because there were no sawmills big enough here to handle it.
beetles
Just making sure you were paying attention.
:)
bambam,
We are still cutting some old growth wood here in Minnesota, hardwoods like white oak and maple were pretty much left alone when they came thru and wiped out our white pine forests around the late 1800's, early part of the 21st century..
Today more than a few farms still have old growth hardwoods growing and believe me it's wonderful to find those old trees. Most of my house is old growth hardwood and sometimes you need to use a magnafying glass to count the growth rings.
One tree I got was all burl just like the dashboard of a Rolls Royce. the sawmill with it's big 60 inch blade could only slice at the tree, no way could it cut thru the whole logs. as a result I have 10foot long planks 22 inches wide of solid burl. If they'd had a big enough blade I could have planks over 5 feet wide of solid burl!
That's what should be done with old growth wood, make timberframes out of it! Not just studs to be covered up with sheetrock! Celebrate the wood that mother nature has provided.. Not demean it with yet another remodel job to meet someone's whim.
make timberframes out of it
Thats probably what was done with these logs.
All of our old growth was gone before I was born. (at least 90% of it) I grew up thinking a "big" pine was about 24" diameter. My grandfather used to load them with mules and oxen. We do still have some big hardwoods though. I salvaged a pecan that a tornado knocked down. They couldnt even cut the base of it. I had to take them the two forks, the largest one being 38".
In fact you'd be hard pressed to find any Long Leaf Pine here. Its mostly Slash and hybrid Loblolly. They grow it in 30 years then cut.
Can't say that I've noticed it being any more prevelant today than in the past.
But when I do run across it, I send it back. I don't try and make it work. My lumber yard realizes I spend good and extra money to deal with them over the big boxes. So when I call to tell them I need them to send me 2 16' 2 X 12s, and they'll be taking two back, they do it without arguement.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Excellent point. You know I never returned anything in the way of lumber back to the lumber yard but found out the other day that after using the same yard(loyalty I guess) for the last 30 years it was no problem. I had bought R30 insulation and actually needed R30 High Density to fit in a cathedral ceilng.
On us being picky about the lumber we use , we all know that it saves time for us from going thru piles of lumber. If the guys behind the counter at the yard had to do what we do, they would understand.
As far as engineered lumber, time will tell how long those glues that hold those millions of wood fibers together will hold up over age and leaky roofs.
Guess I'm old fashiowned when it comes to wood
Frank
Engineered lumber and SIPS that frenchy speaks of are great....in certain applications.
But like anything else, they have a time and a place.
For the majority of the work that I do....residential remodeling and renovations.... they are often not applicable. Too many last minute, on site, unforseen, changes to the scope of the project.
Sometimes you just need a 2 x 10.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Jaybird,
When new materials arrive that are radically different from traditional sticks that we've been using I understand the reluctance others have of using them..
Actually SIP's have been around since WW2. They were commonly called freezer panels back then and usually clad in stainless steel skin not OSB, but the principle is the same.. since the mid 70's they've become more and more common. People Like Bensen were strong proponents of them for use in his timberframes. Gradually they've become more accepted, only a broad experience with them has prevented them from becoming widely used.. inherently there is cost advantages and structural advantages to them.. I can't understand why they aren't very common in earthquake regions. I watch homes being built in southern California right near major fault lines and they strap and go to all sorts of contortions to conform to seismic requirements. or they could simply build with SIP's or ICF's
Remodel an existing home,, sure that's what's required unless you are tearing down walls. Then you have a chance to upgrade and start to use something that will aloow your real talents to show..
For new home building, I won't argue.
I just think there are far more of us around here fixin' what we got than erecting something new where the skys the limit.
And timberframing is still a niche market. I'd bet we could count one one hand how many BTers have had much experience with it.
There's plenty of good lumber out there. Just gotta know where to buy it and not be willing to settle when it isn't supplied.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements