I’ll be re-siding my home in a couple of weeks with quartersawn spruce clapboards. I’ll also be replacing the trim, most of which will be western red cedar. There are a few places (like the frieze board at the top of the wall) that require either very wide or very thick lumber, or lengths longer than I can easily get in WRC. All of the “special” pieces will be in fairly protected locales, and the entire project will be backprimed and have a rainscreen behind it. I have a local sawmill that can provide wide and thick poplar, basswood, or soft maple. Would any of these be acceptable alternatives to cedar? I want this to be a first-class job, especially since it’s my own home.
Conrad
Replies
i'm assuming that since poplar is an alternative, that you will be painting.
poplar as a wide board isn't such a great idea, it tends to "cup" pretty badly especially on exterior applications. might i suggest some of the synthetic boards available now a days. they can be gotten at the local big box stores and are incredibly stable and easy to work with....also, when painted, they are nearly impossible to tell from real wood. they will open up at miters much less as well.
i've used them on my house and love it.
good luck
None of those are good exterior woods.
The 3 woods you mention aren't good exterior woods. Poplar in particular doesn't seem to last very long outside, at least it doesn't in NJ. I've had to replace poplar that was less than 10 years old on some jobs.
I'd do like another poster suggested- use one of the synthetic boards. I've used a fair amout of MiraTec, and have been happy with it. It's available in thicknesses and widths up to 5/4 x 12.
It's pretty heavy, and dusty to cut and mill, but it won't cup and twist, and paints up real nice.
How wide and thick do you need?
Thanks for the input everybody; you saved me from some expensive grief. I'll look into the synthetics. Another thought; what would you all think about white pine? I see it used some around here (northern Ohio). Yes, the trim will be painted. I need at the largest 5/4 by 10" by 13'.
Conrad
White pine is a good exterior wood, but if you use clear pine, it's gonna cost you an arm and a leg. If you use #2, you gotta deal with the knots ( prime with BIN ).
I'd still go with the MiraTec or equiv.
i should have been more specific, as "shep" said, make sure by "synthetic" it doesn't mean anything that feels like that "trex" sort of stuff used for decks......it's the really smooth pre-primed stuff with sharp corners either made of a combination of plastic and sawdust or other. you can tell by feel. sorry i can't remember the name...it's usually by the trim, not by the raw lumber.
It's PVC. Azak. Good stuff. Expensive, but it'll out last all of us here.
yeah, it's funny, it's like switching in carcasse for cabinet building from wood to mdf............feels funny, feels kinda cheap, but once you get used to it you love it, and don't aesethically know the difference....imagine, not having to look for the crown in a board.ps......recently wanted to make a seemless corner mold for a pillar. cut the synthetic stuff on a 45 degree angle for 16 feet.....no tearout, no bumps, no filler. NICE!
It's PVC. Azak. Good stuff. Expensive, but it'll out last all of us here.
It's actually called "cellular PVC" (I think of it like this: cellular PVC is to PVC like Styrofoam is to polystyrene). Most of the lumber yards I've been to don't know it as cellular PVC. I need to ask for it by name. Azek (note spelling) is one of the most popular (at least most heavily advertised) brands and if you ask for that, they should be able to recognize it and tell you the name of the brand that they do carry. For example, Koma is the same stuff.
I've used it and like it a lot. I haven't done any miter or scarf joints yet, but there are considerations that wood doesn't have: http://www.azek.com/insguide.asp
-Don
Ah, didn't know it was called 'cellular PVC. Thanks. It miters quite well and can be planed to fit tight. I've done different joints with it and they have held fine. I like to use glue with it, they make a specific glue for it, or you can use polyurathane glue. I still don't like to work with it like I do wood. It will move in extreme temps. The nice thing about it is that it's nice and flat and very stable. You can prime and paint it, and it looks great up close and far. Plus....it'll never rot.
It will gum up your blades and you have to be careful with it on the table saw as it is heavy and slippery, so there is a bit of a learning curve to working with it.
I burnt up 2 table saws on the last Azek job I did, you have to clean the shavings out of the motor at least daily if not more. The shavings melt in the motor and seize it up. All the white trim is Azek. Alot of miter and scarf joints. The exterior 45 degree corners were time consuming.
I really like azek, just don't like the price for how it looks with the nail holes when you are done. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
I agree. Fill the holes and paint. Nothing is ever maintenance free.
Looks like the whole house is out of level by a few feet....
:-) Seriously though... nice work. What is the siding material?
Edited 8/3/2006 7:03 am ET by Matt
Vinyl cedar shakes that are about a 1/4" thick.
And just regular double four vinyl siding.What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
I just finished up a project that was speced with vinyl shakes in the gable ends. I swear they looked like the real thing...
The shakes on that job were like none I have ever seen before, they were very thick. I could barely cut them with my tin snips. They looked very real.
They came in a panel that was 4' long and 14' tall. But they also came with a bug price tag. $350 a sq!What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
well.... that is about the same price (or maybe even a little less) than the individual hardi shakes... time consuming and they need to be painted... I really think plastics have come a long way in the last 7 years or so... A salesmen today showed me some by Royal that looked good too, and like you said - very thick...
The lack of maintainance is what sold the homeowner on Vinyl instead of Hardi. I was quite impresssed with them. If I was rich like them I would do my house in them. What's wrong with me? I could ask you the exact same thing.
Hate to poop in the punch bowl. My house still sports the poplar trim on the dormers from about 1905 when the wood roof was repalced with terne..painted with oil red oxide..no rot.
I'll pull a chunk and cross cut it if ya doubt the heartwood.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" I am not an Activist, I am, a Catalyst. I lay around and do nothing, until another ingredient is added"
sphere,would i be incorrect in saying that they don't make poplar like they used to? faster growing, less stable?you have any extra (1905 version)lucky!
Correcto mundo. My old Pop is all heartwood, and yes quite old.
Google the termite or rot factor of populus genus is well documented, as is all, the heartwood is the most decay resistant.
with paint that is intact, it is as good as good can be.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
I know we've been thru this before, but my experience with poplar as an outside wood hasn't been good.
I'm not doubting you, I just haven't seen any old growth poplar used for exteriors around here.
And the new stuff just about dissolves when kept wet.
LOL..I understand. My trim is older than all of us put together. New Pop sucks. But yee haw, I be lovin mine.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
I just bought "CYP" for the trim on a project. Clear Yellow Pine is beautiful, strong, sorta pricy, but I think we can only get it in the SE.
Forrest
When I first moved to this place, I found that a lot of the homes had yellow pine or heart pine trim. but nobody stocked the CYP anymore, so when I got my W&H molder, I had a lumber broker find me $3000 worth of the stuff so I could do matching grains and styles. Took a couple months.Then everyone started painting their old beautifull woodwork anyway. So I went to poplar for milling - but interior only.FYI, all...
I have used the exterior mdf known as Medex a lot. The stuff I installed 12-15 years ago is still doing fine. but just this past week I found myself on three different jobs replacing medex I used 5-6 tears ago. I'm thinking they took some goodness out of it, same as with paints.
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Have you tried Extira?
It's by the same manufacturer as MiraTec.
I did a raised panel front entry for a customer 3-4 years ago, and it seems to be holding up fine.
Haven't yet
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< W&H molder>
How do you like it?
I've got Grandad's old Belsaw 903 from the mid-60s. It's still well supported, and I can get custom knives for it in a coupla' weeks. Put a HF 5 Hp "Compressor duty" motor on it, and it will definitely take some big cuts, but I guess it still seems kinda' crude. . .
When it ever needs serious repair, I wonder about it vs a W&H.
Forrest
Love it, well worth the investment.
If search works, there are several threads discussing it over the past couple years.
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No. It's not good for that.