Porter Cable gets Black & Deckered?
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/New+Tools+From+Porter+Cable.aspx
I’m always wondering why everyone wants to go cordless. For a one-off, cordless is fine, but my corded tools are much more powerful, long lasting, and cheaper (Total Cost of Ownership) than any of my cordless tools.
Replies
You can go cordless with the newer lithium ion batteries since they can produce similar power as the corded. The milwaukee 28's and the dewalt 36's are close to that. The problem in the past has been getting the power and keeping the weight low, the newer tech allows this.
pretty sad that dewalt is trashing the pc name and making it a ryobi type of line. I'm sure for the first couple of years tradesmen will be suckered into buying them thinking they are getting the traditional pc performance and quality but at a lower price. Kinda like a bait and switch type of move. I think more than half the tools pc makes are better than the same in a dewalt, they should have used dewalt as the ryobi line.
It is beyond me and disgusts me that a Company Like Porter Cable, who makes good tools can't realize that they make good tools and have the stones to stand up for themselves and not sell out.
I don't trust what dewalt says about the sanders and routers. The tools we use and turn to with confidence are on the way out
It seens in these days companies will say anything then do what they want.
Not really trashing Dewalt tools I use them too. Years ago when I bought a PC tool I new I was getting a professional tool. Not so in the near future.
I hated it when they changed their tool bodies to the grey look. I miss the black PC circular saws and drills, sanders. The first cordless drill I had was a PC. Didn't like their newer ones though.
Makes me da*n mad.Webby
They had to sell out because they gave Norm too many tools. (;-)
yep, probably.Webby
When did PC go to the grey look? I thought that was always their color, even when Rockwell owned them and put their name on them (like my 70's belt sander - one of those tools that established PC as professional and virtually indestructable).
Rockwell was the company that ruined Porter Cable back in the 70's with their cheap plastic "made in america" crapola. Porter Cable was never the same and never will be. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Guess I lucked out then, got the belt sander before they went south.
That's kinda my feeling with Skill - I had the last of the metal-handled worm drives. The plastic handle just never felt right...
I remember the light green plastic "Rockwell" tools of the '70s. You can still see them (though in B&W) in many of the woodworking books of that era.
I have one of those green Rockwell belt sanders that was handed down from my dad. It has a dried out bearing that squeals like a pig if I try to use it, some day I should take it apart and see if I can fix it.
stuart
Nothing wrong with Rockwell - I have a Rockwell drywall screw gun I still use whenever the need can't be avoided. I think it's the best drywall gun ever made: comfortable, light, powerful enough, reasonably quiet.
ron
"It is beyond me and disgusts me that a Company Like Porter Cable, who makes good tools can't realize that they make good tools and have the stones to stand up for themselves and not sell out."I watched Porter Cable sell themselves out back in the 70's. You are at least 3 decades late in realizing that they are selling homeowner tools. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I don't understand why B&D would spend money to buy a brand name and then move its product down market effectively lowering the value of the asset it bought. If what B&D wanted in the first place was the Delta line of stationary tools then perhaps they should have put most of the PC name into hibernation and let Dewalt be their "professional" line of portables while Black and Decker was their "consumer" line. That way they could resuscitate PC at a later date as a more heavy duty line (or whatever) instead of trying to make short term gains at the expense of consumer confusion (and risk alienating a generation or more of potential customers).
Maybe the decision was made by someone who is a big fan of Proctor and Gamble who figures they can get a greater market share by offering similar products under different names at the same price point.
What's a co to do when it has 3 portable tool/brand lines?
They are in the biz of maximizing market share in each category; B&D- casual light use, DeWalt- premier pro line, and now PC- "serious" homeowner and price conscious pro.
I think HD/Ryobi created this third category to capture the many who used to or would likely buy Craftsman tools from Sears. The new PC "Tradesman" line sounds like it may become a semi- house brand for Lowes ala Ryobi and Rigid.
Click on the worlds longest URL for details
http://www.woodmagazine.com/dgroups/persona.jsp?plckPersonaPage=PersonaBlog&plckUserId=ed06e81627381283d2278ff1db8e79b9&userId=ed06e81627381283d2278ff1db8e79b9
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
When they first did the M&A, a knowledgeable person proposed:B&D : Weekend warriors, DIY, Joe Garage
DeWalt : contractors and tradespeople
Porter-Cable : cabinet shops and serious woodworkersLooks like now PC is being pushed down to be an intermediate grade.Of what happens when the marketeers drive the company, the answer to a question no body asked: http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/0581421?ref=gbaseDoes the world really need this? I'm waiting for the Li-ion version :-)
Edited 8/9/2008 6:02 pm ET by byhammerandhand
What's the difference between the needs of contractors and "serious wood workers"/ cab shops when it comes to portable power tools?PC, DeWalt, and B&D, are all the same company. I understand the sentimental sadness that "dumbing down" PC brings, but, it's a brave new world out there and there's much more competition from all over the globe than there was twenty or thirty years ago. B&D has made DeWalt an instantly recognizable line of "pro" tools. Are they up and down the best? Not hardly, but, you wouldn't be crippled if all you could use was yellow tools. I'll guess the best of PC will survive in some shape or form but it looks more and more like Delta was what they really wanted and PC was just part of the package and there just making lemonade.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
There are a number of PC tools that have been in production for many years, they may have been branded Rockwell or whatever in the past, but the tooling has remained for a long time. This is tried and true stuff and will be a shame to see any of it leave the marketplace.
has black and decker become the general motors of the tool world?
whoever thought this up is not a skilled tradesman...more likely a uni grad with a major in marketing who never used a power tool in his/her life.
the entire line looks to be aimed at ryobi users. what amazes me is that they are using ni-cad batteries for the most part, which are going the way of vhs tapes....has anybody addressed battery compatibility with other tools?
i own several porter-cable tools and they never stop working....1/2" EHD drill just won't die and has enough torque to break your arm.
porter-cable has a great reputation built up though years in the trades... why dewalt would throw that away for the sake of market positioning beggars belief.
i have a small dewalt table saw and i love it...but i find overall the rest of their line up is all over the place. how many different voltages do they carry for their cordless section?
9.6v, 12.0v, 14.4v, 18v ni-cad, 18v nano, 28v, 36v....am i missing some?
the 18v nanos do fit older 18v tools but you cannot put a new nano type pack into an old tool.....guess they want you to run out and get a whole new set.
as for me, i recently got a group of makita 18v li-ion and couldn't be happier. except for when i use my fein multimaster....with a blade i made from an old handsaw (sorry piffin)
toolman65
Edited 8/3/2008 9:35 am ET by toolman65
On an emotional level you might not like it, but, what they've done makes good business sense. I imagine they'll keep the popular pro grade PC tools like routers and sanders but anything that competes with DeWalt (the chosen flagship) will be cheapened to compete with ryobi/craftsman/skil and relabeled "tradesman". Redundancy is too expensive. At least they're still an American owned co., unlike skil and Milwaukee.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Your concept of selectively eliminating redundancy makes good sense. It was probably inevitable once B&D bought PC. The challenge they will face will be to maintain the reputation of the routers and sanders if the PC name becomes synonymous with cheaper tools. They might be better off just painting the PC routers and sanders yellow.
I wonder if they're going to rebadge all of their better tools in yellow eventually, even though I think I read somewhere that they would keep them as Porter Cable. I've got one of those little 371 belt sanders, and love it, but I noticed that on Dewalts UK page, they are selling a yellow 371 as the D26480. I'd kind of like to get one just to mess with all of my friends who'll wonder where the heck I got a yellow one.
Exactly my feelings.
Sorry I haven't gotten to this thread for a few days.
Some PC tools were grey and have always been grey however I am still sore that they changed the saw of about five years ago, my favorite circ. saw, and their random orbit palm sanders used to have a black body.
Man I am sore about that saw. I have the blade left I bought recon. the best feeling saw ever, and light and powerful. I wish I had five - a couple left and right blade and one whatever, for good measure. I had probably better pick up their worm drive trim saw -the little one before they start making it in plastic.
They used to sell a screwdriver kit I liked too, came in a steel case called a contractors screwdriver kit.
Their corded half inch black bodied drils were light and powerful and really all you needed in a drill like that.
Now I never really cared for their cordless drills.
And yes I am probably a little young to remember how they changed when rockwell had them.
I have been bummed for years 'cause they were good tools with a light no nonsense look and action to them.
I mean I like Dewalt too, but I am always suspicious of monopolies. I can understand the business end of things.
I will however extend to Dewalt my challenge. They make decent tools, they know they make decent tools, have the stones to move the jobs making those tools back over here and give us the tools at a fair price, and our people jobs.Webby
The last time I spoke with a DeWalt man at a tool show he told me that their aim was to be the largest tool maker. They may have succeeded at that endeavor but I have never seen the highest quality company in anything become the biggest.
Quality costs more money, but cheap sells. If they want to be the largest tool company, their tools won't be the best quality. They do have to be a good value for the price though. What with all the thieving going on here, I might as well own Harbor freight anymore.
Maybe Porter Cable had a cheap/poor quality period/transition decades ago, but the PC I remember is one of strong, industry standard routers, peerless belt sanders, circular saws, laminate trimmers, and misc other heavy duty tools like their planers, some of the finish sanders, and the band saw, d handled drill and the drywall sander.In each (mostly) of the above cases, their tools were of the highest quality, made to work and not too many frills.Very respectable in my mind, and much less of the pimped out nature that a lot of tool companies had become in the last ten years. Their 3710 laminate trimmer has already been yellow-rized - now Dewalt has it as their model with a slightly rounded top - still the exact same trimmer though. First I heard of the belt sander's having been rebadged.If I had to pick a line to push as total Pro and one to let slip into "tradesman" quality - I'd have chosen PC to be the premium, rebadge a few of the Better Dewalt tools, and let the the Dewalt line be the Ryobi/Ridgid demographic.Dewalt has some winners to be sure, but overall, there's a lot more ####/poor quality in the mix than most "pro-level" tool makers out there.JT
Oh man, that's depressing... their new lineup (from the Wood mag link) looks to be on par with the latest bulky plastic Craftsman tools.What a shame to see what's coming.JT
I was talking about the Dewalt tools not being the highest quality.Porter cable made some really nice tools. I had the 314 trimsaw, sold it to Stiletto on this forum as I didn't use it much, but it is an incredible tool. I have a PC 324 mag saw that I love (but had a recall on that one for sticky guard). Two PC routers model 100 and 690, excellent tools. A 1/2 and a 3/8 corded drill - both good - but the VS switch had to be replaced on the 3/8. I also have the 352VS 3x21 belt sander-nearly indestructible. And the 505 half sheet sander, a very, very good finishing sander. I think that's it.I really hate to see the company get deckered up.
The PC 310 trimmer will be gone. Get one while you still can.
Making Porter Cable the premium line would have been my choice as well. I wonder if corporate pride trumps logic here (ie. Dewalt wins so our brand should be the top one).
PC also makes (made?) a nice little worm drive jigsaw. I saw one at a store a year or so ago and it appears identical to the one I bought in 1988. I think I should stock up on their proprietory blades before they become unavailable.
I have been looking for that jig saw on the web. I think it is history. I never got one because I was young and they were expensive.
If I recall, the jigsaws didn't bevel though. Just 90deg. Actually I am sure of it. I have a catalog from them from '98Webby
You're right the base is fixed at 90 which makes it very sturdy although less versatile. The last time I saw one was in one of the more professional and expensive local hardware stores at about $500 CDN. I love the smooth action of the saw and the way it munchs through 2X stock etc. Technically called a "bayonet saw" by PC its blades are shaped sort of like a candy cane and I better get around to stocking up before I'm SOL.
Yeah, they did look nice. I am going to get one of their small trim saws before they go down with the B and D ship.Webby